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Replacements for 'blowing' rice-paper capacitors on Osborne1

RizThomas

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
198
Location
Surrey,BC,Canada
Couple of weeks ago, I picked up an Osborne1 for $20 and today, I decided to refurbish (clean and lubricate) the floppy drives which were failing to read the CPM system disk. After spending some time, I was busy copying the system disk when suddenly a 'big' smoke came sizzling out of the P/s board. It turned out that I just experienced what Tezza was describing in his blog --- 'blowing' rice paper capacitors. I picked up some equivalent ceramic capacitors but because these are for RF filtering, I wonder what Capacitor type I should be really using as replacements. I replaced the 3 rice-paper caps on the PS board but I noticed that there are some also on the Monitor board. Maybe I should be shopping for the right types.

Can anyone suggest what would be the best replacement. Thanks

RizThomas
 
Well, not "rice paper"per se, the Rifa units that appear to fail most often are epoxy-encapsulated metallized paper units. But any non-polar (or bipolar) capacitor with a class X1 or X2 safety rating will do the job. They can come in polyester, polypropylene, or (gasp) even epoxy-encapsulated metallized paper (Rifa/Evox is still made and distributed by Vishay).
 
Thanks so much Chuck for the info. I used the term that was used by Tezza for describing these ones. Now that you have said, I looked at the capacitors and it truly shows the logo Rifa on it. :D
Now just to find who carries them here locally.
 
I generally use Sprague Orange Drop capacitors for all of my line noise filtering needs. Mostly because I've got a bin that has similar lead spacing to most of the smoke capsules I end up replacing. You can still buy them from quite a few sources.

"Don't be vague -- Ask for Sprague!"
 
Are the orange drops Class X? There's a safety concern there--Class X and Y capacitors are supposed to fail in a way not to incinerate or electrocute the user--and be somewhat tolerant of spikes on the line. You can tell by the label of an "X" or "Y" in a rectangle or circle on the cap body.
 
Just to mention, when replacing RIFA's in a 5150 PSU recently I found that they had a different pitch to everything else available. Fortunately in that case IBM had provided two sets of mounting holes, the unused set of which matched up to products currently available (10mm in that case, iirc).
 
Thanks so much Chuck for the info. I used the term that was used by Tezza for describing these ones. Now that you have said, I looked at the capacitors and it truly shows the logo Rifa on it. :D
Now just to find who carries them here locally.

Yes, sorry about that. I wrote that article not long after I started to dabble with hardware. I'm not sure where I got the term now..probably on some article I read at the time. Perhaps original ones were made from rice paper? Anyway chuck is right..a more accurate term is metallized paper caps.

I should revisit some of my old blogs and correct these things. I know a lot more about hardware now than I did then.

Tez
 
Are the orange drops Class X? There's a safety concern there--Class X and Y capacitors are supposed to fail in a way not to incinerate or electrocute the user--and be somewhat tolerant of spikes on the line. You can tell by the label of an "X" or "Y" in a rectangle or circle on the cap body.

Hm, I don't know. I've got Mallory-made Orange Drops in front of me, and they don't. They're also 600 volt devices (I use them in repairing tube equipment), so I'm not sure if it's even a concern. I've got a pile of 0.015 uF @ 600 V Orange Drops that usually get used for PSU noise filter replacements, in both tube stuff (stops line pops in tube audio equipment) and vintage computers.

While I'm confident enough to continue using them in my own projects, do you think there's a legitimate enough concern about the Class X rating to warrant getting actual Class X marked caps for equipment repaired for others?
 
This is one of those things between you and what you see in the mirror when you're shaving.

If I were working with something I intended to sell later, or were to have other people use, I'd go for the rated caps. A class X cap is supposed to not catch fire when it goes and is supposed to be able to tolerate moderate line surges. A class Y is like a class X, but in addition, it's supposed to fail open (Class Y caps generally are used between one side of the line and chassis, so you don't want them to fail and give you a "hot" chassis).

In any case, those "orange drop" Spragues should have an AC rating on them, not the usual polarized stuff with a DC rating.
 
Original post by pearce_jj
Just to mention, when replacing RIFA's in a 5150 PSU recently I found that they had a different pitch to everything else available. Fortunately in that case IBM had provided two sets of mounting holes, the unused set of which matched up to products currently available (10mm in that case, iirc).

I found that Osborne 1 has the same extra mounting holes.

Tezza: Actually I have been reading your article before I had this Osborne1. So when the cap started smoking, the first thought for me was to go to your site and read that part about the capacitor. Hey, if you look closely inside, there are metalized paper inside...which may have been the source of that term.
....I enjoyed your article.

For everyone's info, we have another resurrected retro Osborne1. After I lubricated the floppy drive's "r/w head mechanism", I was able to copy the original Osborne disks. It took me a few tries...I guess the diskettes needed a few turns to really loosen up..which made the reading and writing become successful.

I replaced the capacitors with new 600v rating for the 0.1uf and the 2 - .01uf were at 400v. I had to use these since they are the only on stock at my local electronic shop.
 
My caps popped today. I'm assuming they will be the same ones mentioned here. I haven't opened the case yet.
To replace the large capacitors in/near the power supply, can I use one of these two models to replace them or is there a digikey part number I can use to order from Digikey?
or these?

Which should I replace? I put numbers on all the ones I saw in this picture. Still new to recapping :(





Greg
 

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Wow. Great information. Even between yesterday and today I've learned so much more. I excitingly waiting for the mail every day. Because of the CAPs other evil siblings...I will wait on reassembly of the Osborne 1 until the new CAPs come in.
Thank you ldkraemer (Larry).
 
The RIFA caps are the only ones I would replace by rote whenever I have a PSU in bits. The Electrolytics I will inspect and replace any that are leaking/bulging as most are fine. Of all the machines I have, only an Apple ][ has had a catastrophic blown electrolytic that needed replacing and an MZ-80K PSU that wouldn't regulate because the output smoothing cap had lost value.

Capping has become a 'trend' and its not necessary to replace just for the sake of it.

But given its a pain to take an O1 apart to get to the PSU, then why not :)
 
I for got about this thread but looking back I did not close the loop on the capacitor (CAPs) that need replacing :)
I did inspect as Gary C has also suggested but it was not any of those capacitors.
I highlighted the 3 capacitors that needed replacing in the photo below, yellow squared.
.
RIFAs to replace.jpg
.
 
Yep, those RIFA's are almost all dead by now in any vintage computer. Must have replaced about 30-40 of the things now. Almost every BBC I have worked on has smoked :)
 
I have been dealing with faulty Rifa X2 capacitors my whole life. They are a dual edged sword.

The plastic casings they have are brittle and they crack. Small amounts of moisture get in. Don't forget they are metalized paper types.

The paper absorbs moisture and it expands. As the volume increases it further cracks the plastic shell. Then one day, you switch the unit on and it evolves huge quantities of smoke (but not fire).

The capacitors can in fact short out and self destruct.

One of the more interesting failures I had was a Rifa capacitor that was placed across the motor control pedal of a vintage Singer sewing machine. At about 2 or 3 AM (when I was sleeping in a bedroom with said sewing machine) the capacitor across the pedal shorted out, presumably after a line borne voltage transient. The machine's motor started at full speed, waking me me up in a dazed state wondering what the Hell was happening. I rushed over to the machine and unplugged the machine. The next day I found the shorted capacitor in the pedal assembly.

The reality is, if you want this problem to "go away" forever, simply leave those Rifa caps out. Don't worry about RFI being put onto the line, there are now a million and one wall wart SMPS power supplies that put more RFI onto the line than your vintage computer ever could.

But, on the other hand, they can improve your computer's resistance to RFI on the line.

So these days what I do is simply replace them for new Rifa caps, readily available from Mouser, Newark, Digikey etc. They will be ok for about 25 to 30 years, before they smoke you out of your workshop and history repeats itself.

I wouldn't replace them with orange drop types as they might create fire. One option though, if there is space, is to go for 1500v to 2kV rate poly caps. This way they won't fail, but they don't have the fire ratings, but at that voltage rating it is probably academic.

Back in the 1930's, before X2 line rated safety capacitors were invented, with UL (undertakers Laboratories) certifications,, the capacitors used as line RF filters were in fact just wax paper caps. But the thing was, the designers used ones rated over 1kV, so they never had any problems. As time went by people wanted more compact caps for the applications, for pcb use, with thinner insulation between the foils and hence more likely failure, so they had to then go for flame retardant materials and we ended up with the typical Rifa "safety capacitor" we have today.
 
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