TRS-80 Model 1 Level II

[strollin]

I have been offered a TRS-80 Model 1 16K Level II for $50. The unit is working, looks in pristine condition, comes with console, monitor, cassette, and speaker all packed in the original packaging. So far my collection is strictly IBM, I know absolutely nothing about Tandy/RS computers but would like to learn. Is $50 reasonable for this unit?

Thanks.

 

[Erik]

That's a really good price, IMO.

 

[patscc]

Grab at it

Grab at it

Snatch it. You can always sell it if you don't want it. They tend to go for a lot bore on eBay.
Now where did you say the computer was located again... ?
patscc

 

[Druid6900]

Yes, for the keyboard, monitor and cassette deck, that's an excellent price.

 

[tezza]

$50 for a full-Level II Model 1 machine in good condition!!

That's a bargin.

Tez

 

[Vint]

I have been offered a TRS-80 Model 1 16K Level II for $50. . . . Is $50 reasonable for this unit?

Well, let me see . . . . I paid $750. for mine with monitor, keyboard computer, cassette drive, and level II ROM. But it was only 4K of RAM. Later I added 16k for an addition $150.
Of course that was back in 1978!

So, today - over 30 years later, and still looking and working good - yea, I'd say $50. is a steal!

 

[vwestlife]

Model Is make great museum pieces, but unfortunately you just can't do much with them. At least for me, the novelty of a black-and-white-only, uppercase-only text display with no sound and no real graphics wears off after a while. Nonetheless, there is a great sense of nostalgia in owning a pioneering home computer, especially if you get one with a large array of original programs and literature.

 

[Vint]

Model Is make great museum pieces, but unfortunately you just can't do much with them. . . .

You may have missed the boat, vwestlife; or should I say 'ride', for the Radio Shack Model 1 was an awesome machine . . . "in it's time", which was the late 70's. You had to be there to really appreciate it. I can understand your 'unfascination' of the Model 1, because you're "looking back" from a much different vantage point in time - but "in it's time", the Model 1 moved mountains! If you're driving around in a Corvette today, it's fairly difficult to get excited about a Model T Ford too. But many people got very excited about Model T's "in their time". It was great to live through the emerging technology of computers and video games. Why I remember, eons ago . . . I was at a friends house and he invited me to play a game on his TV. I think he had one of the early home style 'Pong' type games, from Sears around 1976. A unit similar to this:

This 'Pong' was really cutting edge stuff back then. I couldn't believe you could actually 'play games' on a TV set. The novelty was so odd as to be amusing, even funny. I can remember just laughing and laughing as we played this 'Pong' game on his living room Television. The times - 'they were a changin', as an old song goes. I was just glad to be there for the 'ride'
What the Model 1 computer lacked in graphics and other abilities - you made up for with 'imagination' - (watch 'Dancing Demon' - an early Model 1 program.) That still amazes me; what they accomplished with what they had.
I think we have a tendency to get spoiled with advancements and lose some of our ingenuity for basic fun along the way.
-Too much candy can make you sick -

 

[vwestlife]

You may have missed the boat, vwestlife; or should I say 'ride', for the Radio Shack Model 1 was an awesome machine . . . "in it's time", which was the late 70's. You had to be there to really appreciate it.

In its time (note: no apostrophe on the possessive "its"), the TRS-80 enjoyed two great advantages: a relatively low price for a complete system, and most importantly, availablity at any Radio Shack store. R.S. used their early marketplace dominance as the basis of an entire lineup of proprietary closed-box TRS-80 computers, which all grew increasingly irrelevant and obsolete as other computers with attractive color graphics and sound (Commodore, Atari) and/or versatile open architecture (Apple, IBM) became affordable and widely available enough to establish their own marketplace dominance. History is telling: the TRS-80 Model I and Apple II were both introduced in 1977, but by 1981, the Model I was discontinued while the Apple II was really just beginning its prime time!

Nonetheless, a decade ago I had an entire Model I system kindly donated to me by its original owner, even including a hand-built Heathkit printer and the original dust covers for the monitor, keyboard, and tape recorder. For a few months I was immersed in exploring every bit and byte of the system and its software -- even going "on-line" via the RS-232 interface in the Expansion Unit -- but after then, it all just sat on the shelf, and I eventually gave it away to a collector.

I understand the attraction of nostalgia; for example, I'd love to have a NEC PC-8001A again -- my own first computer at home. But I do realize that after a while, it, too, would also just sit unused. On the other hand, my Tandy 1000 and 1000RL never go more than a few months before I find a reason to pull them out and start tinkering with them again, mostly because DOS compatibility allows easy file transfer between them and my modern PCs.

 

[tezza]

Model Is make great museum pieces, but unfortunately you just can't do much with them.

I think some have mis-interpreted vwestlife's posting. As I read it it's referring more to "modern-day fun" (to quote Earl Evans of Retrobits) with a vintage computer as opposed to it's usefulness "back in the day" so to speak. Am I right?

It may be correct in that there is less you can tinker around with. The architecture was not very open and even RS-232 ports are relatively rare on Model 1s.

However, it was certainly useful back in the day. Once a TRS-80 Model 1 was fitted out with disk drives, memory expansion, decent card edges and a data separator they were a great productivity tools. Many of the games, although lacking colour and fine graphics were actually a lot of fun to play.

Historically, as far as microcomputers go they were significant and notable models, which assisted in micros being accepted as mainstream items and, (along with the Apples, PETs , Ataris and CP/M boxes) convinced IBM that they shouldn't ignore this market.

Tez

 

[Vint]

Points well taken, vwestlife. I have a tendency to drool on myself in my old age about things nostalgic, but you are right about the usefulness of 'some' vintage machinery - and even some of my vintage equipment sits and sits much too long without play. Point: I always wanted a Commodore 128 back when they came out. I practically wore the keys off my Commodore 64 in the 10 years I had it and today I rarely drag my, now owned, Commodore 128 off of it's resting shelf. I wouldn't part with it for the world, but alas, I rarely use it. I'm just 'Commodored out' I guess. I never had an Apple all through the 80's and now I have an Apple IIc which I use far more than the Commodores. (I have a VIC-20, and a Plus4, also rarely used.) I must have these machines. I must possess them as part of my vintage collection - but I find that I use the computers I didn't own back then, but own now, far more than the ones I did own, then. Does that make sense? It's difficult to justify just why us collectors must collect certain machines. I want an Epson HX20 with tape and printer - but I just know it's only for the novelty I see in it. A computer with display/printer/storage, all in one! I'd love to have one of the Tandy 1000 series of machines - but I can't tell you why, other than I like Radio Shack stuff. I just lost an auction for a Radio Shack MC10, that I really wanted - to take the place of a dead Timex 1000 that I never really cared for, just had around because of it's historic footprint. I can't explain why some machines appeal to me and others don't. That's just a shoulder shrugger, I guess.
I still think Dancing Demon on a Model 1 is awesome though

 

[vwestlife]

I think some have mis-interpreted vwestlife's posting. As I read it it's referring more to "modern-day fun" (to quote Earl Evans of Retrobits) with a vintage computer as opposed to it's usefulness "back in the day" so to speak. Am I right?

Yes. A Commodore 64 or Apple II is still a very useful computer today, due to the large enthusiast community still making new hardware and software for them. (Heck, even new Atari 2600 games are still being programmed!) The Model I simply does not have this user base, because it was so quickly replaced with the Model III and then the 4. Of course, programs can be written which will work equally well on the Models I, III, and 4, but then the large majority of III and 4 owners would be missing out on the extra capabilities of their machines, so the demand for Model I compatibility is (and always has been, since the early '80s) very low.

The Model I does have excellent physical design, though. It is a beautifully styled machine, with a very "period" look... but just like the Philco Predicta TV sets of the 1950s, it's better to look and admire frequently than to use frequently.

 

[mkr]

In its time (note: no apostrophe on the possessive "its"), the TRS-80 enjoyed two great advantages: a relatively low price for a complete system, and most importantly, availablity at any Radio Shack store. R.S. used their early marketplace dominance as the basis of an entire lineup of proprietary closed-box TRS-80 computers, which all grew increasingly irrelevant and obsolete as other computers with attractive color graphics and sound (Commodore, Atari) and/or versatile open architecture (Apple, IBM) became affordable and widely available enough to establish their own marketplace dominance. History is telling: the TRS-80 Model I and Apple II were both introduced in 1977, but by 1981, the Model I was discontinued while the Apple II was really just beginning its prime time!

One point though: The Model I was still outselling the Apple II before production stopped. It wasn't lack of demand, but stricter FCC regulations that caused it to be discontinued. It was closer to 1983 before the TRS-80 was completely outpaced by the Apple II and the IBM PC.

 

[Terry Yager]

At that point in time, Radio Shack was the world's leading seller of Personal Computers. The poor ol' Model 1 was a force to be reckoned with in it's day, partly due to the overwhelming presence of RS retail outlets practically everywhere.

--T

 

[barythrin]

So, strollin, the most important question here is, did you get it? ;-)

 

[strollin]

I got the TRS-80. It came with the system unit, monitor, cassette recorder, amplified speaker, expansion unit, 2 disk drives and 8 boxes of disks with about 20 disks in each box. Not one page of documentation!

Can anyone point me to some documentation on-line? I especially need to know how to cable this thing up. Is the system unit powered from the expansion unit? There is no separate power supply for the system unit but the expansion unit has 2 power cords. There are 4 edge connectors on the expansion chassis, what connects where? Nothing is keyed so I need to know the orientation of the ribbon cable connectors.

The disks are mostly hand labeled. Some say TRS-DOS, TDOS, NewDOS, LDOS, etc... Are there really that many different DOSs?

 

[vwestlife]

There should be two power supply "bricks" hiding inside the expansion unit: one for the expansion unit itself, and one for the system unit (keyboard).

The expansion unit connects to the keyboard with a ribbon cable on the left, as shown. The cable is short and stiff enough that it can really only fit correctly one way, especially if you want to reinstall the trim pieces that cover up the connectors.

I can't help you with hooking up the disk drives because my own Model I system didn't have any.

 

[tezza]

Two good websites...

http://www.trs-80.com/
http://www.trs-80.org/

My own System 80 site at http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/system-80 also has a lot of Model 1 documentation (including driving instructions). The driving instructions for the System 80 (a Model 1 clone) are equally valid for the Model 1.

Tez

 

[tezza]

IThe disks are mostly hand labeled. Some say TRS-DOS, TDOS, NewDOS, LDOS, etc... Are there really that many different DOSs?

Yes there are. You might want to read a bit about that here, in the context of why I selected the disk images I did for my site.

Tez

 

[chuckcmagee]

I have found the following with regards to hooking up floppy drive edge connectors. Most important part seems to be that it won't fry the drive if done upside-down. Mind you, this is ONLY for this type of edge connector, separate power plug type drive. If the red light on the drive and the drive motor come on the INSTANT you turn on the power, the cable is on the wrong way. Flip it over. If it sits there until the computer says "Hey, how about it floppy?" then cable is on correctly. Once again I get to mention the pencil eraser trick for taking oxide of the edge connector blades before hooking up the cable (rub with eraser, blow crud off).