VERAULT
Veteran Member
Can I just make a pass through adapter , basically a straight through but internally combine the two sync signals and use diodes for safety?
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Unknown Sears Color RGB monitor Clone? Is this a 1084 clone?
- Thread starter VERAULT
- Start date
VERAULT
Veteran Member
This is a Sears Monitor, Back when SEARS used to mean something. I had to believe that it had the circuitry to work!
So after reading those posts it just didnt seem right to me that youd need to build more adapters. Utilizing one sync to do the job sounded good to me. So I wired it up using the Vertical Sync.
And It worked!
Here is the color bar test using TTL RGBI:
Here is the same image using the composite input on the same monitor:
As you can see that apple composite text is all rainbow unreadable. Also notice the Apple II orange is a definite RED on the RGB image now. And Grey is now the yellow/brown under RGB mode.
Its definitely 8 colors with a second 8 colors with intensity as you see when you dial the brightness way down. You almost cant see the first set of colors anymore:
Text on the Apple II is now great and readable and this card gives you a couple jumpers to set the text as tu-tone, White with green (blue, amber, or white). I have it on Amber and blue for these shots
Some things to note. On this monitor only the Brightness knob in front (and volume but I am not connecting sound for this) works in RGB mode. The other knobs for contrast, tint, and color do nothing when RGB is active. The funny thing is when in composite mode, adjust the contrast will change the colors. Its pretty tough to dial the colors in; its a effort of contrast, tint, and color together to get the colors in composite right. And any slight adjustment will set them all wrong if you are not careful. At least its versatile for tuning. Also the color drive pots on the neckboard only change composite video. There are 3 pots on the main monitor board near the rear (where the RGB connector is) which make changes to RGB video.
So now I know it works for the Apple II rgb card (one of them I am still waiting on another member to hopefully help me out and give me a pinout to test. ITs a completely different architecture with many more options to dial in colors), But how do I make it work easily. Combining the syncs scares me and I want to do it safe but I also need to have both syncs in the cable for use on other machines.
What do you guys think I should do? Once I pass this hurdle I will make a header to use with a standard 9 pin CGA computer. Mabe test on a C128 first I dunno.
This is good news, I am happy we are getting somewhere. I still want to make my last test with the Apple IIgs analog RGB.. I just want to say I at least attempted it.
Mick
So after reading those posts it just didnt seem right to me that youd need to build more adapters. Utilizing one sync to do the job sounded good to me. So I wired it up using the Vertical Sync.
And It worked!
Here is the color bar test using TTL RGBI:
Here is the same image using the composite input on the same monitor:
As you can see that apple composite text is all rainbow unreadable. Also notice the Apple II orange is a definite RED on the RGB image now. And Grey is now the yellow/brown under RGB mode.
Its definitely 8 colors with a second 8 colors with intensity as you see when you dial the brightness way down. You almost cant see the first set of colors anymore:
Text on the Apple II is now great and readable and this card gives you a couple jumpers to set the text as tu-tone, White with green (blue, amber, or white). I have it on Amber and blue for these shots
Some things to note. On this monitor only the Brightness knob in front (and volume but I am not connecting sound for this) works in RGB mode. The other knobs for contrast, tint, and color do nothing when RGB is active. The funny thing is when in composite mode, adjust the contrast will change the colors. Its pretty tough to dial the colors in; its a effort of contrast, tint, and color together to get the colors in composite right. And any slight adjustment will set them all wrong if you are not careful. At least its versatile for tuning. Also the color drive pots on the neckboard only change composite video. There are 3 pots on the main monitor board near the rear (where the RGB connector is) which make changes to RGB video.
So now I know it works for the Apple II rgb card (one of them I am still waiting on another member to hopefully help me out and give me a pinout to test. ITs a completely different architecture with many more options to dial in colors), But how do I make it work easily. Combining the syncs scares me and I want to do it safe but I also need to have both syncs in the cable for use on other machines.
What do you guys think I should do? Once I pass this hurdle I will make a header to use with a standard 9 pin CGA computer. Mabe test on a C128 first I dunno.
This is good news, I am happy we are getting somewhere. I still want to make my last test with the Apple IIgs analog RGB.. I just want to say I at least attempted it.
Mick
Last edited:
Eudimorphodon
Veteran Member
It's nice that composite sync works on it. It's not too surprising in part *because* it has that oddball connector on it; there's at least some implication there that the monitor wasn't slavishly designed to *just* work with IBM PC compatibles.
I still think it's a pretty serious stretch that it'll work on a IIgs unless you find a secret digital/analog switch. Monitors that do digital and analog through the same physical plug aren't unknown, some models of the Commodore 1084 do, for instance, but they have switches to pick which format you're using.
I still think it's a pretty serious stretch that it'll work on a IIgs unless you find a secret digital/analog switch. Monitors that do digital and analog through the same physical plug aren't unknown, some models of the Commodore 1084 do, for instance, but they have switches to pick which format you're using.
VERAULT
Veteran Member
Im sure it wont work. But I want to say I exhausted its potential.
Any thoughts on how to make the cable and still have it work on my Apple II RGB cards yet not modify the monitors dual sync signals?
Chuck(G)
25k Member
Yes, the cited article has nothing to say on separated sync. Your monitor appears to be a digital-input monitor, given the "I" pin.
VERAULT
Veteran Member
The more I read about Analog RGB the more I feel its possible but not without extensive modification. And right now I have enough projects. So thats going to the back burner. I really would love a monitor capable of analog RGB without fully depending on the Apple monitor.
So I pulled down my Visual Commuter 1083 because I thought I remembered it having a round DIN RGB port.. Turns out it has a the same composite Round Din connector as Commodore. The machine had a standard DE9 RGB connector so thats what I made up next.
Here are some photos of it displaying CGA Test Drive for DOS on a compaq portable I. Nice thing about that computer is I can have the internal CRT, Composite video out and RGB out at the same time. Funny thing is the Composite output is only in black and white and I thought it would be color. I know there was a recent thread about that I should look into it.
Trust me it looks much better in person. Taking photos of CRT screens is not easy.
The only thing is when I connected it up the image was shifted over quite a ways to the left but not a big deal.
So at this point I think I am going to button up the cable and call it a win for this monitor and RGB connection. I can always open it up and add to it at a later time.
Thanks everyone for all the help and pointers. This was a fun dive into RGB that I never really had done before.
Mick
So I pulled down my Visual Commuter 1083 because I thought I remembered it having a round DIN RGB port.. Turns out it has a the same composite Round Din connector as Commodore. The machine had a standard DE9 RGB connector so thats what I made up next.
Here are some photos of it displaying CGA Test Drive for DOS on a compaq portable I. Nice thing about that computer is I can have the internal CRT, Composite video out and RGB out at the same time. Funny thing is the Composite output is only in black and white and I thought it would be color. I know there was a recent thread about that I should look into it.
Trust me it looks much better in person. Taking photos of CRT screens is not easy.
The only thing is when I connected it up the image was shifted over quite a ways to the left but not a big deal.
So at this point I think I am going to button up the cable and call it a win for this monitor and RGB connection. I can always open it up and add to it at a later time.
Thanks everyone for all the help and pointers. This was a fun dive into RGB that I never really had done before.
Mick
Last edited:
HoJoPo
Veteran Member
Sounds like you're looking for the Sony KV-1311CR. I have two, one working, one that needs some work. Supports both digital and analog RGB, I've used it with my Apple IIgs in the past (currently using the matching AppleColor RGB monitor because it matches the power/drive center on top of the system).
Inputs on the side look like this:
From the front:
VERAULT
Veteran Member
I know I have seen that photo before showing the inputs with the 36 (is it 34?) pin analog connector. If I came across one cheap sure, otherwise... Well I have far too many monitors already.
trash_44fr
Member
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2011
- Messages
- 41
Hi all,
As requested, here is the pinout of the cable that goes with my Taxan RGB IIB Model 410-08 card. For the record, I use it along with a SONY KX-14CP1 monitor.
Connector pinout on the card (see PCB silkscreen) :
1 - Red
2 - Green
3 - Blue
4 - White & Black
5 - Not connected
6 - Yellow
Connector pinout on the Digital RGB Connector :
1 - Not connected
2 - Red
3 - Green
4 - Blue
5 - White & Black
6 - Not connected
7 - Jaune
8 - Not connected
As final note, the Digital RGB pinout from the SONY KX-14CP1 manual :
Hope this helps
Regards,
As requested, here is the pinout of the cable that goes with my Taxan RGB IIB Model 410-08 card. For the record, I use it along with a SONY KX-14CP1 monitor.
Connector pinout on the card (see PCB silkscreen) :
1 - Red
2 - Green
3 - Blue
4 - White & Black
5 - Not connected
6 - Yellow
Connector pinout on the Digital RGB Connector :
1 - Not connected
2 - Red
3 - Green
4 - Blue
5 - White & Black
6 - Not connected
7 - Jaune
8 - Not connected
As final note, the Digital RGB pinout from the SONY KX-14CP1 manual :
Hope this helps
Regards,
VERAULT
Veteran Member
Fantastic! Thank you for this! I figured the yellow was the intensity wire but it seems it doesnt have an intensity wire connected and instead its the H. sync. Strange.Hi all,
As requested, here is the pinout of the cable that goes with my Taxan RGB IIB Model 410-08 card. For the record, I use it along with a SONY KX-14CP1 monitor.
Connector pinout on the card (see PCB silkscreen) :
1 - Red
2 - Green
3 - Blue
4 - White & Black
5 - Not connected
6 - Yellow
Connector pinout on the Digital RGB Connector :
1 - Not connected
2 - Red
3 - Green
4 - Blue
5 - White & Black
6 - Not connected
7 - Jaune
8 - Not connected
As final note, the Digital RGB pinout from the SONY KX-14CP1 manual :
View attachment 1242376
Hope this helps
Regards,
Last edited:
VERAULT
Veteran Member
Ok with my impatience I wanted to test out this last RGB card before heading outside today. Using trash_44fr's Pinout I made a connector (DB15 Female) to the Taxan RGB card. Strange it has no intensity signal but if you see the image you will see that intensity must already be present on each color already.
So here is the Taxan RGB card (apple II). You can see right away its drastically different from the Video-7 RGB card as far as colors go. This one seems like its missing some colors. Grey, grey2, and pink are all white. Yellow and orange are both the same yellow. Magenta and purple are both the same purple. Brown is red. Again the colors seem a bit washed out as if they all have intensity enabled. Lowering the brightness doesnt do much to improve anything and makes text harder to read. Also notice the yellow borders on the right and left side. You can see color bleeding aqua on the far left and red on the far right as if the convergence on the monitor were off. But Its only this card which does that. Strange.
Like the other Video 7 card I can set text colors as well as a couple settings for background color. Honestly Green on black is the most legible and its barely better than composite. Notice the left side of each character is faint for some reason. The hi-lited option "d" cant even be read!
Not sure if its my card. I know this card was meant to pair to a specific 3 mode taxan monitor but I have to believe its the card here which is the culprit. I dont know if this is how its supposed to be. The text is just not much better than composite. This card which came out in 1983 one year before the Aux slot Apple II RGB card requires some modifications to the mainboard. On a IIe you need to solder the X7 jumper pad on the board as well as connect two wires to pins 7 and 8 on a 74LS166. This was already done on the IIe which the card came in I am using for this test.
These cards dont come up often. Here is one on ebay but it has a Round din connector for some reason: https://www.ebay.com/itm/195119763076?hash=item2d6e0b4e84:g:RrcAAOSwS5hioMDk
So here is the Taxan RGB card (apple II). You can see right away its drastically different from the Video-7 RGB card as far as colors go. This one seems like its missing some colors. Grey, grey2, and pink are all white. Yellow and orange are both the same yellow. Magenta and purple are both the same purple. Brown is red. Again the colors seem a bit washed out as if they all have intensity enabled. Lowering the brightness doesnt do much to improve anything and makes text harder to read. Also notice the yellow borders on the right and left side. You can see color bleeding aqua on the far left and red on the far right as if the convergence on the monitor were off. But Its only this card which does that. Strange.
Like the other Video 7 card I can set text colors as well as a couple settings for background color. Honestly Green on black is the most legible and its barely better than composite. Notice the left side of each character is faint for some reason. The hi-lited option "d" cant even be read!
Not sure if its my card. I know this card was meant to pair to a specific 3 mode taxan monitor but I have to believe its the card here which is the culprit. I dont know if this is how its supposed to be. The text is just not much better than composite. This card which came out in 1983 one year before the Aux slot Apple II RGB card requires some modifications to the mainboard. On a IIe you need to solder the X7 jumper pad on the board as well as connect two wires to pins 7 and 8 on a 74LS166. This was already done on the IIe which the card came in I am using for this test.
These cards dont come up often. Here is one on ebay but it has a Round din connector for some reason: https://www.ebay.com/itm/195119763076?hash=item2d6e0b4e84:g:RrcAAOSwS5hioMDk
trash_44f Do you use your card at all? How is the picture quality?
Last edited:
VERAULT
Veteran Member
Sold for far more than I would expect. https://www.ebay.com/itm/195119763076 $329.75 Geeze for that price I should sell mine... Maybe. Not sure if its working correctly.
Last edited:
trash_44fr
Member
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2011
- Messages
- 41
Not lately but I do test the card when bought. From memory, the output was great, colors were okay & display was crisp.
VERAULT
Veteran Member
Thank you. The issue might be my proto board temporary connector. I will solder up a real connector and test again with photos.
VERAULT
Veteran Member
By the way, here is the cable I made.
VERAULT
Veteran Member
Ok going back to the early posts of this Thread. I bought a bunch of new Large shelving to better store all my CRT monitors. While going through them I found a SONY PVM-1380. Now this unit DOES have the same connector but its labeled VTRThat is an 8 pin EIAJ. Commonly used for VTR but some monitors used it for RGB.
VTR connector:
So if I want to use this monitor for anything Im at a loss. It it only composite?! judging by the BNC connectors and the pinout for VTR that Plasma posted. One pin for video is Composite right? So again, I cant use this for any real RGB.. Just a color composite? I thought SONY PVM's were premium. This seems lackluster at best unless I am missing something.
Chuck(G)
25k Member
This monitor was clearly made for studio work, not for computer work. Why would it need RGB inputs?
VERAULT
Veteran Member
If it wants to live a long useful life it had better try a little harder!
Ok Composite only. I have my answer. Thanks guys. I have a bunch more in the shelves, I just wasnt to sure about this one.