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USB in a 486 PCI motherboard

I've heard rumor that most USB cards won't work on such an early board because of some required features, but I've had USB working on a Socket 5 Pentium, so a 486 isn't too much of a stretch - just gotta find a card that's happy with it if the rumors are true.

Unfortunately for myself, my favorite 486 boxen are ISA only.
 
My 486's have USB :)

My 486's have USB :)

I have many 486 motherboards - most are ISA or VESA Local BUS (VLB) - these, I don't use. The one's that I am currently using have PCI and VLB slots and Evergreen 586 CPU upgrades (133Mhz 586 in a 486 socket). I am using Windows 98SE with them. These machines are purposed with the task of controlling my EPROM and other device programmers which require some version of DOS to operate properly. Since Windows 98 can reboot into DOS mode, I use it. Now, for the interesting bits - I have USB 1.1 PCI cards in them, which allows me to use USB Thumb Drives (this requires the Windows 98 Mass Storage Drivers.). I also have Promise/Maxtor Ultra ATA 133 or SATA150 cards in them. This allows me to use large hard drives, such as 500gig hard drives. Windows 98 cannot normally use drives larger than 137g unless they are partitioned into 137g or smaller partitions. However, I purchased Rudolph Loew's PATCHATA which gives large hard drive support. There are also free alternatives to Mr. Loew's patch. I use his patch on one machine and the free patches on the others (search for win98se2me and somewhere on that site you'll find links to the big disk patches.) Basically, this is what I do - stick an old 2 or 4 gig drive in the system. Install windows 98 se, the USB card drivers, the Promise card drivers, the large disk access patches and the mass storage drivers. Then, attach a large hard drive to the promise controller and use an image tool (I use a norton ghost 2003 boot disk) to image the small drive onto the large drive. Remove the small drive and it's controller card (or disable the onboard ide in BIOS if it's integrated). Boot back up and the promise card should take over and boot from the large hard drive. The FAT32 file system wastes a lot of disk space, but I have tons of unused 40-500gig drives, so I use them in these old systems. If you have any difficulties, drop me a line and I'll try to help.
 
Unknown_K said:
PS/2 Keyboard ports became popular at the tail end of the generic 486 PCI motherboard era, and you can buy PS/2 splitters (used for laptops mostly) so you can use a PS/2 keyboard and mouse at the same time.

I also like the feel of Microsoft Optical mice (the cheap 2 button with scroll wheel mouse optical 1.1A USB PS/2 capable). My setup for 486 systems (even 286/386) is to use a Belkin Omnivew SE Model F1D104 4 port KVM. The KVM has PS/2 ports (you can just use a cheap AT to PS2 adapter on the computer keyboard end), standard VGA port, and instead of a PS/2 port for the mouse you can use a serial cable to the KVM which will emulate the PS/2 port over it. On the control end I use a PS/2 IBM Model M keyboard the above mentioned USB Optical mouse with PS/2 adapter (that mouse works on PS/2 as well) and the KVM forwards the signal to the serial port on the computers (works with the standard Microsoft DOS serial mouse drivers). The PS/2 mouse port will also work with systems that have PS/2 ports while still working with serial emulation on the others.

The F1D104 KVMs have been pretty cheap on ebay for the last few years as people dump them for USB + DVI setups. You can gang 4 together for up to 16 system on the 4 port model (I have 2 that way), and they also have 8 port units.
Click to expand...

I've received a couple of the 2 port KVM switches today, the ones with mouse emulation.
Unknown_K, thank you so much for posting this, your hint was golden!!!
 
Glad to hear it. I just picked up another older 4 port Belkin with rack mount kit on ebay (F1D066).
 
Do the KVMs being discussed handle both very low resolutions (320x200, text modes, etc.) and high resolutions (1920x1200, to be specific)? I've had trouble finding a KVM that would - I want to set up a 486 and my main box on the same KVM.
 
They have a bandwidth rating that limits the upper resolution they support before the image is degraded, the F1D066 is 1024x768 max (100mhz) the other model I mentioned F1D104 is 1600x1200. You still need decent cables.
 
I have had success with one particular PCI USB 1.1 add-in card in Windows98SE on a 486 M919 motherboard. It has the OPTi FireLink 82C861 chipset and I beleive the model number is TK-P2U022.

Oddly, I have tested another PCI USB 1.1 add-in card with the same chipset that did not work on the same motherboard/OS. I have tested this card in Win98SE with a USB to PS/2 mouse adapter cable for which the USB mouse functioned fine.

If memory serves me correct, I also had success with this same USB add-in card in two other 486 boards, a Biostar MB-8433UUD and a Shuttle Hot-433 (rev 1, 2, or 3).

I have also tested this PCI USB 1.1 add-in card to serve as Linux USB-flash card boot OS using DSL and a diskette as the initial boot device. DSL then loads entirely into RAM for 128MB and greater (I had 256 MB FPM ram in the Biostar MB-8433UUD and ran a socket 3, Cyrix 5x86-120).

This looks like the card, http://www.shopping.com/SIIG-Intek21-USB-Dual-Port-PC-MAC/prices

Someone else had posted a link USB 2.0 card which had PS/2 keyboard and mouse ports. As someone else noted, it is really a USB card that has a converter built-in. If your OS does not have or does not support USB, it will not work. I have this card and have tested it on three different 486 boards and I could not get it to function properly in Win95OSR2.5, Windows 98SE or WinNT 4.0.

As an alternative to using the Belkin F1D104 as a PS/2-to-serial converter, Vetra Systems also makes specific single-unit PS/2 mouse to serial mouse converters which I have tested (i.e. VIP-327-PS-SW). I tested these units in Win 95/98 and NT 4.0. The conversion works, but I think the sampling rate of the device is somewhat slow, such that you do not get very smooth tracking of the mouse pointer.

For someone who has tested the PS/2-to-serial conversion of the F1D104, how was the mouse tracking quality? The drawback to this KVM is that it does not have audio switching. I will look for one on eBay for the soul purpose as a PS/2-to-serial converter and test it as a link to my current KVM w/audio.
 
Had a great idea come to me on how to possibly do this! I own a few pci to pcmcia converters. I know there were also scsi based ones and isa slot ones.

Point it, if you can get a 32 bit cardbus pcmcia converter up and working, you should have no problem using a pcmcia to usb card. I happen to have both , have yet to try the combo. Perhaps this Friday / this weekend if I have time...
 
So far I have dug out the pci to pcmcia adapter, and pcmcia usb card. I have installed it into a p166, using win98. Card seems to work great! Added note, the pci to pcmcia card I have supports 5v pci!!!!

Now to just find dos drivers that support it. No luck so far with 365sl cardware drivers. Its a TI based chipset. If I recall correctly, some thinkpads shared the same pcmcia chipset...
So until I can find the dos drivers, still at a standstill. On the other side, I found the drivers needed for the NEC chipset on the pcmcia to usb adapter. So once the dos drivers for the pci converter are located...

16-Bit PCMCIA Cards supported
32-bit Cardbus Cards supported
5V at 1Amp typ. with fault protection
3.3V at 1Amp typ. with fault protection
PCI Universal 3.3V and 5V keyed PCI board
Supports TypeI, II and III card sizes. Slot has ejector lever
Uses industry standard 1410 or 1211 controller chip, proven on all classes of processor, chipset and motherboard manufacturer. Yenta compliant, PCI2.2 compliant, PC99 compliant. Supports sleep and suspend modes. Intel 82365 compatible register set
Comes with device drivers for Windows95(osr2+), 98, 98SE, Millennium Edition, NT4, 2000, XP and Vista (32-bit) with support also for Linux and MacOS9 as standard. DOS driver also available on request
Works with any card type thanks to patented driver
Perfect for Wireless LAN, Bluetooth, GPS, GSM, GPRS cards etc
Also works with Compact Flash, Memory Stick, SmartMedia, MMC and SD cards using suitable adapter available separately
Click to expand...
 
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BTW, here's the link to the adapter... $4-6 avg price on ebay
http://www.elandigitalsystems.com/adapter/p111.php

http://cgi.ebay.com/16-32-Bits-PCMC...214?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2f10f9d6

and to my pcmcia usb 2.0 card - $7.60 shipped
(not the same that I have, mine is 2 port but exact same vendor/chipset, costs 3 dollars more though xD )
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/4-ports-usb-nec-pcmcia-card-for-notebook-52835

Atm , still stuck not having working drivers in dos. The manufacture claims to support dos so I sent them an email. Currently awaiting their response...
 
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maybe i'm nuts, but windows 2000 always seemed to be faster for me on 486 systems than windows 98 as long as you have at least 64 MB of RAM. it's most noticeable when doing some multitasking. after installing it, go in and disable unnecessary services and it will run pretty nicely.

you might want to see how that works out. how much RAM is in the machine? windows 2000's USB support clearly puts 98's to shame.
 
twolazy said:
So far I have dug out the pci to pcmcia adapter, and pcmcia usb card. I have installed it into a p166, using win98. Card seems to work great! Added note, the pci to pcmcia card I have supports 5v pci!!!!

Now to just find dos drivers that support it. No luck so far with 365sl cardware drivers. Its a TI based chipset. If I recall correctly, some thinkpads shared the same pcmcia chipset...
So until I can find the dos drivers, still at a standstill. On the other side, I found the drivers needed for the NEC chipset on the pcmcia to usb adapter. So once the dos drivers for the pci converter are located...
Click to expand...
I think you are onto something here...

I seem to recall ISA to PCMCIA adapters being fairly common place back in the day, so one could in theory could do ISA to PCMCIA to USB in a 486 system, I want to say in win95 (might be 3.x/NT4 im thinking) you needed some kind of "card services" software for PCMCIA, but I think 98, ME, and 2k would be do-able out of the box for PCMCIA.

EDIT: I know this would be slow as ISA bus doesn't have bandwidth for USB, but should have enough for KB/Mouse and SLOW USB Flash drive access.
 
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Well I have tried a few times, and no luck yet. In win9x I get BSOD's trying to use any USB hid device or mass storage. The drivers do install, and the PCMCIA USB adapter is found and initialized. Everything posts functional in device manager... Till I plug something in! LOL! :confused:

As for in dos, I cannot even get the PCMCIA card initialized. The drivers refuse to detect. Not giving up hope yet though...

BTW keep in mind this is a PCI to PCMCIA adapter, not ISA. ISA will not work, its 16 bit. PCI supports 32 bit. USB PCMCIA cards require 32 bit Cardbus PCMCIA, unlike say wifi cards which do come in 16 bit flavors (eg Cisco 350/360 series). Now perhaps it may work with some sort of MCA/VLB/PCI SCSI to PCMCIA adapter...
 
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BSOD before windows even loads... :(

I have a feeling the cardbus adapter I have doesnt support the IRQ/DMA required by the PCMCIA usb adapter. Guess I will have to look into it further when I have time. I do know now it functions properly however having managed to get a PCMCIA 10mb Flash Card working and formatted!
 
twolazy said:
BSOD before windows even loads... :(

I have a feeling the cardbus adapter I have doesnt support the IRQ/DMA required by the PCMCIA usb adapter. Guess I will have to look into it further when I have time. I do know now it functions properly however having managed to get a PCMCIA 10mb Flash Card working and formatted!
Click to expand...

You should try an older USB 1.1 PCMCIA card, NOT a CardBus card, there is a difference, most ISA/PCMCIA bridge cards I have seen are not designed to handle cardbus.
EDIT: Main Difference PCMCIA = 16-bit, Cardbus = 32bit. ISA being a 16bit bus wont handle cardbus.
 
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