Vintage Business Software Use Today

[barythrin]

One article I found randomly was a "Dinosaur Sightings: IBM 5251, 4000 Series VAX, Timex Sinclair and more" It starts out more interested but later on just seems like a few collectors posting pictures of their system lol. But still had some interesting data from 2006 on systems that were still in use.

I mentioned it in another thread but I did have some quick little stuff written in quick basic (compiled) here at my current job but after moving to a 64-bit windows environment I can't run the 16-bit dos apps anymore. At first I was going to rewrite in C but out of curiosity had me look for any 64-bit port of qbasic which I found but was unsatisfactory since it seems to run in it's own console output which I couldn't interact with (i.e. I couldn't highlight the text and copy to clipboard the output). I wrote it to output to a file also but it's quicker to copy and paste from the cli. I ended up rewriting it in vbs after using that to do some remote wmi queries. I do find it interesting that despite all the removal of features cscript/wscript are still in Windows Server 2008 so an advantage is a scripting language, readable by anyone to see the code (not an untrusted exe) and compatible from NT->today so far. I know they'll be stomping it soon for Powershell but for now it does more than I need.

 

[Chuck(G)]

Related to this thread tagentially, but does anyone know of a printer driver that can take PCL output from a program running in DOS mode on XP/7 and create a PDF of the output?

I'm looking at REDMON and GhostPCL, but haven't tried it yet.

Someone really needs to port DOSEMU to 64-bit Windows...

 

[barythrin]

Not sure how good it is for accuracy but I've usually used pdfcreator as a virtual free pdf printer/creator. Ah.. I see the other catch.. dos printer. I'm not sure if it does that.

 

[njroadfan]

Related to this thread tagentially, but does anyone know of a printer driver that can take PCL output from a program running in DOS mode on XP/7 and create a PDF of the output?

I'm looking at REDMON and GhostPCL, but haven't tried it yet.

Someone really needs to port DOSEMU to 64-bit Windows...

There are builds of DOSBox which have a functioning ESCP/2 virtual printer. Just don't tell the DOSBox developers, they scream and scold you if you dare use their baby for anything but games. Print to LPT1 and the output is rendered to PNG, BMP, or routed to your native Windows printer. Text output is rendered with FreeType and the monospace font of your choice.

 

[Chuck(G)]

There are builds of DOSBox which have a functioning ESCP/2 virtual printer. Just don't tell the DOSBox developers, they scream and scold you if you dare use their baby for anything but games. Print to LPT1 and the output is rendered to PNG, BMP, or routed to your native Windows printer. Text output is rendered with FreeType and the monospace font of your choice.

As I said, the output is PCL3, so I'm not certain the DOSBox approach will work.

 

[Doug G]

I still use a custom app I wrote in MUMPS, running under the VA Kernel, all running in Datatree MUMPS 4.3 circa 1991. I created the app in DTM4.2 in about 1989, sold a few instances including one to a fortune 500 company. It started in DOS 3.x and still is running basically un-altered in Window 7 Pro.

 

[Maverick1978]

The cable company I work for uses a program called CATVMaster. It's a program that started originally in the 1985 or 1986 as a DOS program, programmed in a BASIC variant with plenty of custom extensions. It exists today as a 64-bit compatible program running under Windows 7 as essentially the same DOS program. They've switched the database to SQL-compatible files, and they've added a Windows wrapper for it back in the Win95 days, but in look, feel, functionality, and core, it's still very much a vintage program indistinguishable to the end-user from the original 1980's version. Complete with text-based ANSI splash screen at startup.

 

[NeXT]

On more than one occasion I have considered using a Lisa for a daily driver.
Seriously, all you need is LOS 3 + 7/7, a printer, and a modem and you can do a lot of modern generic office work, so long as your coworkers and the people upstairs don't mind all your work in printed form off a dot matrix printer and the guy in IT doesn't mind keeping the indial modem just for you.
I have actively used a Powerbook 180 loaded with Microsoft Office to write several documents while on the train.

 

[SquallStrife]

There are builds of DOSBox which have a functioning ESCP/2 virtual printer. Just don't tell the DOSBox developers, they scream and scold you if you dare use their baby for anything but games.

That isn't really fair. They just don't want a situation where some obscure accounting/payroll application corrupts everything because DOSBox doesn't implement something, and ruins some poor sod's business.

The DOSBox team doesn't support the unofficial builds anyway. They make an effort to get people up and running in terms of mapping drives to directories and stuff, but they can't support what they didn't write.

When they do "scream and scold" it's usually because some rude person storms in and demands compatibility for their ancient app, right now, for free. If your software package is so critical, then you can justify the expense of (A) hiring someone to patch DOSBox for your purposes, or (B) updating to something current, with vendor support.

I know they'll be stomping it soon for Powershell but for now it does more than I need.

Think of PowerShell CMDlets as a dot-NET-ised version of VBScript. The logic syntax is quite similar, and it's actually easier to access OS features.

 

[Ole Juul]

That isn't really fair. They just don't want a situation where some obscure accounting/payroll application corrupts everything because DOSBox doesn't implement something,

That's fair enough. I've never used DOSBox and can't really imagine why anybody would - at least if they are serious about DOS in any way. If you're in jail or stranded on the space shuttle where you can't get hold of a free computer it makes a lot of sense though.

On more than one occasion I have considered using a Lisa for a daily driver.

I get that. There was a lot of productivity in offices running DOS just a few years back. From an actual work perspective, apart from ubiquitous networking, people are fooling themselves if they think we've moved very far since then. Sure, a coloured pie chart projected on the wall does look cool, but it is not a very good indicator of productivity - in fact usually the opposite.

 

[SquallStrife]

That's fair enough. I've never used DOSBox and can't really imagine why anybody would

Horses for courses, as they say. DOSBox is really quite awesome at what it's designed for, and simply the wrong thing to use for anything else. When you lack the room or resources to build a proper contemporary DOS machine, DOSBox is a far better tool than, say, VirtualBox for running DOS games. DOSBox emulates a large gamut of sound cards, for instance. Whereas VirtualBox only emulates the digital portion of a Sound Blaster 16, so no FM sound.

This focus on gaming-related hardware comes at the expense of, say, less focus on file handling. It's accurate enough to load a game's assets, and write a game save that's a few hundred K to a few MB. But there are no guarantees that it won't mangle your several gigabyte database file with hundreds of rapid, random read+write operations by multiple users. It's not tested, and it wouldn't be fixed if it were, because it's outside the scope of the project.

- at least if they are serious about DOS in any way.

There are plenty of people, myself included, on the VOGONS forum (the official DOSBox support forum) that are quite serious about DOS. We're just serious about gaming on it, as opposed to running a business.

 

[Ole Juul]

There are plenty of people, myself included, on the VOGONS forum (the official DOSBox support forum) that are quite serious about DOS. We're just serious about gaming on it, as opposed to running a business.

I see you have some expertise with DOSBox, and I certainly respect that. I understand now how DOSBox is useful for gaming since there is nothing lost by having the occasional incompatibility. However, at least from my point of view, gaming is not DOS, it's gaming. That's fine, but using an OS in itself is a whole different ball game. I don't do business software myself, but rather utilities. It's the suitability of the OS itself for everyday use, and not what applications I can run on it. Anyway, since my mentality is miles away from gaming or understanding anything about it, (I admit the idea hadn't even occurred to me) my above comments were regarding the use of DOSBox for things like business (and my own uses too) and it seems that you would agree, that it is not the best choice in that case. Also, physical computers for non-gaming DOS use are basically free, and easy to set up functionally.

 

[Stone]

IMO, DOSBox is the best thing since sliced bread, no ifs, ands or buts. And right along with it, it's companion, ProGammaX.

 

[Chuck(G)]

Horses for courses, as they say. DOSBox is really quite awesome at what it's designed for, and simply the wrong thing to use for anything else. When you lack the room or resources to build a proper contemporary DOS machine, DOSBox is a far better tool than, say, VirtualBox for running DOS games. DOSBox emulates a large gamut of sound cards, for instance. Whereas VirtualBox only emulates the digital portion of a Sound Blaster 16, so no FM sound.

But if you're interested in business software, you have (almost) no use for sound. Heck, I didn't put a sound card on my PCs until well into the 1990s--I simply didn't use the hardware to play games and neither did my customers. On the other hand, my PCL3 issue is one case; there are still applications out there that use Diablo 630 or Epson FX-80 for printed output. But gamers don't care about printed output or, say, digitizing tablets.

 

[barythrin]

I'm not sure if this will work but allegedly from a 2008 post on the pdfcreator forums:
"2008-04-15 21:22:26 by glovell

I see this is a from a while ago, but I encountered this problem in trying to print from a Paradox DB application in DOS under XP. I think quite a few people encounter this problem, so here is the solution:

1) Install PDFCreator like normal
2) Enable Sharing with the Share name PDFCreator
3) Open a command prompt
4) Type (change YOUR COMPUTER to your computer name):
"net use lpt1 \\YOUR COMPUTER\PDFCreator /persistent:yes"
5) Open the PDF Creator printer properties
6) Click the "Advanced" Tab
7) Click the "Print Processor...." button
8) Set the processor to "WinPrint" and the default data type to "TEXT"

And your done. This will also work for any other printer to allow you to print from DOS."

It of course sounds like it perhaps would work for text output but I'm not sure about PCL. Might be a starting point for the other applications too though (mapping a network resource to ltp1).

 

[RickNel]

Chuck's query seems to raise a category challenge. PDF is inherently a graphical format, while PCL is a device control system more like a mark-up. I would guess that from a DOS application output, you would have to generate a virtual graphical output such as a Postscript file, then pipe it to a second process to generate the PDF.

There's a utility called DOSPrinter that claims to do all this - I haven't tried it.

Rick

 

[SquallStrife]

But if you're interested in business software, you have (almost) no use for sound. Heck, I didn't put a sound card on my PCs until well into the 1990s--I simply didn't use the hardware to play games and neither did my customers. On the other hand, my PCL3 issue is one case; there are still applications out there that use Diablo 630 or Epson FX-80 for printed output. But gamers don't care about printed output or, say, digitizing tablets.

All of this is spot on, which is why DOSBox is the wrong tool for that job.

Or at least, mainline DOSBox is the wrong tool. There's no reason someone else couldn't take the source and develop a fork that caters to non-game software, and then provide support for that kind of usage. That way they can make changes and fixes without worrying that it's going to break compatibility with a game.