Vintage computers (with Sinclair connections) found in my loft

[Toymaker]

Clearing my loft, I found a number of vintage computers with Sinclair connections - most excitingly was the Grundy NewBrain computers.

NewBrain was initially a project of Sinclair Radionics and later taken to Newbury Electronics. I used to work in the Grundy group so I was able to obtain these 2 computers. Their part in computer history is fascinating.

"Making the Most of the Micro" is a TV series broadcast in 1983 as part of the BBC's Computer Literacy Project. In 1981 BBC Engineering was instructed to draw up a specification for a machine that the program could be tailored to. The market provided few alternatives, so the BBC specification was closely written around the NewBrain specification with the expectation that they would bid on the project. With the Newbrain not being ready (trouble with ULA's), in 1982 Chris Curry visited the BBC and convinced them they were ready to go with a machine that could mostly meet the specification. Whereupon Acorn Computers won the contract.

 

[cj7hawk]

You have some nice boards there. I remember the Grundy bit from early television, but never really understood their connection to the shows I watched.

The whole micro wars of the 80s were fascinating. There's a movie called "Micro Men" which follows this, and for all of his Genius, Sir Clive seems to have been quite the tyrant with respect to what was happening. Sometimes I think a Spectrum with a real keyboard would have been the best outcome. People couldn't afford the BBC and so the Spectrum might not have been the "BBC Computer" but it still featured heavily in schools and homes.

But I remember "The computer show" and watching it when I was a kid. The UK had an early start and could have ridden it to have created a European silicon valley, but too much was lost in 1985

Nice computers - a beautiful collection. You have quite a few zx81s there in various states - and that keyboard looks pretty interesting. Was it for the Spectrum?

 

[LambdaMikel]

The UK had an early start and could have ridden it to have created a European silicon valley, but too much was lost in 1985

Yet, the ARM architecture powers today's world of mobile computing (and much else in embedded, too!). So, Acorn definitely had a huge impact on the world.

You mentioned Amstrad - where is the connection here? More items to share?

 

[Toymaker]

You have some nice boards there. I remember the Grundy bit from early television, but never really understood their connection to the shows I watched.

The whole micro wars of the 80s were fascinating. There's a movie called "Micro Men" which follows this, and for all of his Genius, Sir Clive seems to have been quite the tyrant with respect to what was happening. Sometimes I think a Spectrum with a real keyboard would have been the best outcome. People couldn't afford the BBC and so the Spectrum might not have been the "BBC Computer" but it still featured heavily in schools and homes.

But I remember "The computer show" and watching it when I was a kid. The UK had an early start and could have ridden it to have created a European silicon valley, but too much was lost in 1985

Nice computers - a beautiful collection. You have quite a few zx81s there in various states - and that keyboard looks pretty interesting. Was it for the Spectrum?

The keyboard was from a hacked ZX81 machine.

 

[cj7hawk]

Yet, the ARM architecture powers today's world of mobile computing (and much else in embedded, too!). So, Acorn definitely had a huge impact on the world.

You mentioned Amstrad - where is the connection here? More items to share?

They all worked together before. The Spectrum was europe's biggest selling computer - only just behind the C64 if you count the clones.

I like this line in the movie retelling.

Fictional or real, I think it was accurate nonetheless.

 

[LambdaMikel]

They all worked together before.

Amstrad was much later... and not part of the gang. The movie is well-known. Yes, Amstrad acquired what was left of Sinclair after the crash -> Spectrum +2, +3. However, Lord Sugar wasn't liked and an "outsider", not Cambridge - at least that's how the movie displays it. "They" (Sinclair, Acorn, ...) certainly did *not* work with Lord Sugar or the creators of the CPC before (i.e., Roland Perry, Mark-Eric Johnes, and Locomotive Software). Do you have different information? Amstrad doesn't play a role in the movie, other than mentioning "bloody Amstrad" at the end.

I grew up with the Schneider CPC 464 (re-badged Amstrad CPC 464) - I own one since 1985, so I know a bit about Amstrad ;-)

 

[LambdaMikel]

ok, seeing now that you dropped Amstrad from the thread.

 

[cj7hawk]

Amstrad was much later... and not part of the gang. ...(snip)... Do you have different information? Amstrad doesn't play a role in the movie, other than mentioning "bloody Amstrad" at the end.

Yes, Alan Sugar was an early customer of Sinclair - audio equipment and amplifiers I remember being mentioned in one of the Sinclair documentaries - so they all knew each other.

Amstrad had the CPC out by 1984 on the heels of both the BBC and Spectrum and it caused a bitter rivalry between Sugar and Sinclair, and apparently Sinclair was highly envious of Sugar.

Some of it is in old interviews but there's also The Deconstruction Of Sinclair and The Sunrise Technology by Ian Anderson which covers some of the conflict in later chapters.

You can read it on Anna's Archive.

 

[LambdaMikel]

Yes, Alan Sugar was an early customer of Sinclair - audio equipment and amplifiers I remember being mentioned in one of the Sinclair documentaries - so they all knew each other.

Amstrad had the CPC out by 1984 on the heels of both the BBC and Spectrum and it caused a bitter rivalry between Sugar and Sinclair, and apparently Sinclair was highly envious of Sugar.

Some of it is in old interviews but there's also The Deconstruction Of Sinclair and The Sunrise Technology by Ian Anderson which covers some of the conflict in later chapters.

You can read it on Anna's Archive.

Oh course they knew each other - how can you not, if you work in the same space. But I think you claimed that they *worked* together before the Amstrad acquisition of Sinclair, and I don't think that this is accurate.

You can read about the CPC genesis here (from the original hardware designer) - there is no mention of "working with Acorn and/or Sinclair". Nor is there any mention of working with engineers that had any previous connection and/or employment with either Acorn or Sinclair.

You’re NOT fired: The story of Amstrad’s amazing CPC 464 • The Register

The only Acorn -> Amstrad connection I see is in Locomotive BASIC, which is closely related to Mallard BASIC and hence the BBC Micro BASIC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotive_BASIC

Of course Amstrad was going after both of them - in particular, Lord Sugar wanted a "real computer" that doesn't look like "a pregnant calculator" (which was obviously a derogatory comment about the Spectrum).

 

[cj7hawk]

Oh course they knew each other - how can you not, if you work in the same space. But I think you claimed that they *worked* together before the Amstrad acquisition of Sinclair, and I don't think that this is accurate.

They didn't work in the same company, but they worked together in the sense that they had a wholesale relationship, so they knew each other pretty well and not just in a sense of someone they new about and occasionally ran into - and this was long before they built computers.

You can read about the CPC genesis here (from the original hardware designer) - there is no mention of "working with Acorn and/or Sinclair". Nor is there any mention of working with engineers that had any previous connection and/or employment with either Acorn or Sinclair.

Alan Sugar didn't design the Amstrad computers, and Clive Sinclair didn't design the Spectrum. Chris Curry didn't design the ZX Spectrum either. Still, these people weren't strangers to each other - even long before the Spectrum came along.

You’re NOT fired: The story of Amstrad’s amazing CPC 464 • The Register

The only Acorn -> Amstrad connection I see is in Locomotive BASIC, which is closely related to Mallard BASIC and hence the BBC Micro BASIC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotive_BASIC

Of course Amstrad was going after both of them - in particular, Lord Sugar wanted a "real computer" that doesn't look like "a pregnant calculator" (which was obviously a derogatory comment about the Spectrum).

The facts are easily determined. I think it's just that see them as a stronger connection than I imagine you do. But I did notice that these connections aren't documented in anything a search engine will find.

Here'a a great interview with Chris Curry ( I've been watching some of this oral histories to better understand the era ).

That's Chris Curry himself talking about early Sinclair Radionics... Watch from 8.30 when he talks about Alan Sugar coming around to but their preamps.

So yes, they were all in it together. It was a symbiotic relationship. From the very early days. This is why I see Sugar as a key player alongside Sinclair and Curry and they all had history together going back long before personal computers existed. He wasn't just someone who noticed what was going on and decided to do the same. He walked in these circles.

If your only tool is google, then this connection doesn't exist at all does it? I hope some day they teach Gemini to listen to podcasts as well as read webpages.

 

[LambdaMikel]

I think you and I all watched the same podcasts and interviews... yeah, I still think that "working together" inplies an entirely different kind of relationship then what you describe. Anyhow.

Having Google as your only tool is certainly ill advised if you are doing research.

Did you read any of the books about Amstrad?

I also wouldn't claim that Apple worked with Xerox or that they were "all in it together" just because Steve Jobs walked in and got a demo of SmallTalk..

Anyhow. Sinclair and Sugar and Curry worked together symbiotically So be it

 

[cj7hawk]

I think you and I all watched the same podcasts and interviews... yeah, I still think that "working together" inplies an entirely different kind of relationship then what you describe. Anyhow.

Having Google as your only tool is certainly ill advised if you are doing research.

Did you read any of the books about Amstrad?

Not yet. I've been more reading the books about Sinclair when time permits.

Yes, I think it is just a case of differing perspectives on what "working together" means - I found that many companies I had business relationships often merged with "Working Together" directly at times - that is to say that if you have a common goal, often it's not just purely a supplier/purchaser arrangement. So I imagine that colors my perspective somewhat.

But I'm not inferring anything more than the interview linked to suggests in my earlier posts.