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Vic-20 no video

D

Dirk

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
18
Location
Seattle, WA
Hello to all,

I am new to this site. I could use a little help. I just scored a Commodore Vic-20 with the following software:

“Start Programming with Gortek and the Microchips” includes 16k memory expansion cartridge & cassettes
“VIC Typewriter Word Processor with Typing Tutor” on cassette
“Paratrooper by Nic Dudzik” on cassette
“Personal Finance 1” on cassette
“An Introduction to Basic: Part 1” on cassette
“Expense Calendar (Part 1)” on cassette
“Typing Tutor for the Vic20” on cassette
“Personal Finance II” on cassette
“Adventure Pack II” on cassette
“Home Inventory” on cassette
“Loan Mortgage Calculator” on cassette
“River Rescue” game cartridge
“Choplifter” game cartridge
“Shamus” game cartridge
“Apple Panic” game cartridge
“Cosmic Cruncher” game cartridge
“SUPERSMASH” game cartridge
“Tooth Invaders” game cartridge
“Pirate Cove” game cartridge
“Gorf” game cartridge
“The Count” game cartridge
“Radar Ratrace” game cartridge
“Omega Race” game cartridge
“Adventure Land” game cartridge
“Clowns” game cartridge

The Vic-20 did not come with the cassette player, any kind of monitor or joystick. In appearance the Vic-20 itself looks nearly new. The plastic is not discolored at all. It even has the original keyboard cover in mint shape.

I spent about well over an hour trying to get a picture on my cable ready TV without luck. The LED illuminates on the Vic-20 but no picture. I am trying to go in through a TV input port on my VCR not sure if that should matter. The instructions say to connect the RF modulator box to the 2 VHF antenna leads on the back of the TV. I don’t have the proper connector to go directly into the back of the cable ready TV. I have tried channels 3 & 4. I have also tried changing the switch setting on the RF modulator box to both channel 3 and channel 4 as well. No luck.

Any insight or direction you might have would be appreciated.


Dirk
 
balun

balun

If you've got the twin leads from the modulator, they are called 300 Ohm balanced. If on your TV you've got the round one with the pin in the center, that's called 75 Ohm unbalanced. To go between the two, you need what's (I think, unless my memory is off) called a balun, and RatShack should have them.
Here's the pinout in case you want to go from the VIC directly to a monitor:
http://pinouts.ru/Video/Vic20Video_pinout.shtml

On your VCR, you're using the 300 Ohm balanced VHF antenna input, correct ?
patscc
 
The VIC-20's RF modulator puts out a TV signal on channel 3 or 4, not a composite video output, even though the connector is the same. You need a switchbox or an "RCA to F connector" adapter to connect it to your TV's antenna input.

The RF modulator box is known to fail. The one my VIC-20 came with wasn't working, even though it was a near-mint in-the-original-box system. So, I substituted a Commodore monitor cable, which connects to the 5-pin DIN on the back of the VIC and gives composite video and audio outputs.
 
No offense, but are you plugging it into the red, white, or yellow RCA jack? If so, those are not RF inputs, but rather composite video & audio inputs.

You need to get the RCA to F connector adapter at your local Radio Shack and hook it to the big silver F connector that has the threads on it.

Also, the stock RF modulator has the RCA jacks on it. The stock RF switch box had the twin leads.

RJ
 
channelmaniac said:
No offense, but are you plugging it into the red, white, or yellow RCA jack? If so, those are not RF inputs, but rather composite video & audio inputs.

You need to get the RCA to F connector adapter at your local Radio Shack and hook it to the big silver F connector that has the threads on it.

Also, the stock RF modulator has the RCA jacks on it. The stock RF switch box had the twin leads.

RJ
Click to expand...



I am not offended at all. I feel a little sheepish but I have to admit that I had been trying to do as you had described. I was given a RF modulator box without the twin leads. Someone had already put a RCA to composite video cable on the modulator box, which is what through me off.

I have to admit that when I brought the vic-20 home I was really excited, to the point of not reading the directions. It took me a while to realize that I had actually played games on one of these when it was new, over at a friend’s house. It is already bringing back memories.

Thanks for the replies,
Dirk
 
Dirk said:
. . . . I have to admit that when I brought the vic-20 home I was really excited, to the point of not reading the directions. It took me a while to realize that I had actually played games on one of these when it was new, over at a friend’s house. It is already bringing back memories.
Click to expand...

It's great to see someone still get a kick out of a VIC-20 :)

After my TRS-80 Model 1, the VIC-20 was my next computer, way back in the early 80's, and I really enjoyed learning on the VIC. I now have a very nice, and still working fine, VIC in my collection.
 
Hello again,

I went to Radio Shack. I picked up a male RCA to male F adapter and 6 feet of coax (female F to female F connector). I plugged the male RCA end into my RF modulator, and the F end of the coax into the back of the big male F plug on the back of my TV. I plugged the video cable from the modulator box to the back of the Vic.

I set the RF modulator switch to channel 3. I then turned on the TV, and set the channel to channel 3. The TV displays nothing but snow at this point.

I then turned on the Vic and red LED is illuminated. After waiting about 2 seconds the TV displays a vertical line from top to bottoms of the screen. The line is directly in the center of the TV. The line is about 2 inches wide and bright white. If I turn the sound up on the TV all I hear is a high pitched whining noise.

I never see any messages of any kind on the screen. I don’t have a game cartridge installed at this point.

The Vic came with a book called “Personal Computing on the Vic20 a friendly computer guide”. The book was published by commodore electronics, ltd.

This book indicates that I should see a message that says something to the effect of “BYTES FREE” and a cursor, just a few seconds after boot. I never see such a message.

Anyone have any experience with this type of situation?

Thank you,
Dirk
 
Soldering iron

Soldering iron

Do you have a soldering iron & would you mind cutting up a plain RCA (regular stereo cable) ?
Maybe even a piece of stiff copper wire ?
It's pretty simple to wire up an ugly adapter that let's you take the video out from the VIC directly to the video in of a whatever.
Post back if you want to give it a shot.
Oh, do you have a volt-meter or multi-meter, or anything like that, by any chance ?
patscc
 
Dirk said:
. . .I went to Radio Shack. I picked up a male RCA to male F adapter and 6 feet of coax . . . I plugged the video cable from the modulator box to the back of the Vic. . . TV displays a vertical line from top to bottoms of the screen. The line is directly in the center of the TV. The line is about 2 inches wide and bright white. If I turn the sound up on the TV all I hear is a high pitched whining noise. . . book indicates that I should see a message that says something to the effect of “BYTES FREE” and a cursor, just a few seconds after boot. I never see such a message. . .
Click to expand...

Well, it looks to me that you've got it hooked up correctly for RF. If what you have going looks like this -

picture.php


It doesn't sound good, what you describe about the white vertical bar. I'll leave that to some other forum members to help with - but it sounds to me like you've got a definite problem with that VIC-20. Install a game cartridge before you turn it on and see if you get the same vertical bar business.

The unexpanded VIC-20 boot screen should look like this -

picture.php
 
It's certainly possible that the RF modulator box is faulty. Mine was!

But first make sure the TV is set to the correct channel. If you have the RF modulator set to channel 3 and the TV tuned to channel 4 (or vice versa), you will usually get some kind of fuzzy garbled image when the computer is switched on, but obviously not the correct display.

If you're handy with a soldering iron, you can get some more parts from Radio Shack and make your own composite video and audio cable, bypassing the RF modulator and TV antenna connection entirely. Connect Pin 4 (Video Low) of the VIC's DIN jack to the center pin of the composite video cable, and pin 3 (Audio) to the center pin of the audio cable. Connect the outer shields of both the audio and video cables to pin 2 (Ground) on the VIC.

vic_video.gif


Just be careful not to connect anything to pin 1; it is the voltage that powers the external RF modulator box, and you don't want it mixing into your video or audio connections.

Or, you can buy a pre-made video/audio cable for the VIC-20 from various sellers online, typically for about $6 to $7 plus shipping. Make sure it is a 5-pin cable for the VIC-20 and early C64 (also compatible with the Atari 800, TI 99/4A, and various other home computers). An 8-pin "luma/chroma" video cable designed for the later C64 and C128 will not work with a VIC; it won't even physically fit into the jack due to its lack of the extra pins.
 
vwestlife said:
Or, you can buy a pre-made video/audio cable for the VIC-20 from various sellers online, typically for about $6 to $7 plus shipping. Make sure it is a 5-pin cable for the VIC-20 and early C64 (also compatible with the Atari 800, TI 99/4A, and various other home computers).
Click to expand...

I got one of these from e-bay for about that price for my Vic-20/C-64 and 8-bit Ataris. Works well, and because it's a more direct signal, you get a far better picture.

Tez
 
patscc said:
Do you have a soldering iron & would you mind cutting up a plain RCA (regular stereo cable) ?
Maybe even a piece of stiff copper wire ?
It's pretty simple to wire up an ugly adapter that let's you take the video out from the VIC directly to the video in of a whatever.
Post back if you want to give it a shot.
Oh, do you have a volt-meter or multi-meter, or anything like that, by any chance ?
patscc
Click to expand...


Yes I have a multi-meter and soldering iron. I do not mind cutting up a plain RCA cable. I have one I can use. I also have a digital cameral for taking photos of what I am working on/ how I am doing things. I am not sure how to upload photos though. Just let me know what you have in mind and I will go for it.

I have a female F connector on a pair of old rabbit ears that I could sacrifice. This F connector has two screws on it. I also have some 12-2 with ground house wire in my garage that I could use. Is this the kind of stuff I might need? I am not worried about the TV as it is from 1990 and only 21" inch. It only has a male F connector on the back.

Thanks to everyone for the help!
Dirk
 
I think I gotta go with Vint on this one; if that vertical white bar is fairly crisp and well-defined (as opposed to fuzzy and snowy) then it sure sounds like you've got a Problem.

Is there any sign of activity in that white bar when you type? How about when you put in some of those carts - any signs of life? Any sound?

If you do hack a direct audio and/or video cable, of course that would have to go through the VCR; that does work OK I assume?

Good luck!!!
 
Last edited:
hacked cable

hacked cable

Okay, cut the RCA cable. If it's a stereo cable, you can use one for video & the other for audio, but for now let's just do the video:
This all refers to the excellent picture posted by vwestlife.

Seperate the copper braid shield from the inner conductor, give yourself 1.5 ~ 2 inches to work with. Twist up the copper braid shield.
Tin about 3/8 inch of the tip of the twisted braid. This works best if you can clamp the cable in a vice. If you don't have a vise, wedge it between two soup (or beer) cans, this way, you'll have one hand to hold the solder & the other the iron.
Strip about 3/8 inch from the center conductor. This tears easy, so do it gently.

If you have some stiff copper wire( like Romex ), do the following:
Strip about 3/8 off the wire. Tin, solder the tinned copper shield to it.
Cut the stiff wire so you have an inch or so, and take off the insulation.
Do the same procedure with the center conductor.
When done, the RCA cable should be attached to two copper 'prods'

If you don't have the copper wire, just make do with the tinned RCA cable. Don't use paper clips, it can be a real pain to try and get solder to stick to a paper clip.

The way the pins are counted is a bit odd if you're not used to it, so make sure to look at the picture.
Put the copper braid shield into the hole labeled 'GND' (2). Put the Center conductor into either VIDEO LOW(4) or VIDEO HIGH(5) (they're connected in the VIC).
Okay, now take your multimeter, and measure AC & DC between the pin and collar of the RCA jack. This is just so you don't fry your video input.
If AC is below about 1.5 volts or so, you're good.
If DC is below about 1 volts or so, you're good.

While you're at it, you might want to check the power supply voltages as well.

Okay, you can now take this RCA jack, and plug it into the Video IN on your VCR.
Because of the way sync is processed in TV's and VCR's, if your voltages are okay, you won't fry your equipment. (Although if it looks funny, don't leave it on for a long time), and see what happens.
If it doesn't work, take some pictures, and we'll walk you through uploading. Do you have a photobucket account, by any chance ?

patscc
 
Well the short story is that the problem is fixed. I now have a working Commodore Vic20. The long story is that I have a completely different Commodore Vic20 now. I also have a lot more than I had originally wanted. I want to thank everyone for their help in trying to correct my situation.

If you want to hear the long story then read on. It all started when I phoned a local recycler and asked them if they had any Commodore Vic20 computers. They said they did. They said that I could pick up a Vic20 for about $29.00 in decent shape. I figured what the heck I will go get just that one item. They even said that they would test it for me before hand. So I go there…

And so I could not have this without that and so on… I ended up walking out with the following stuff:

Commodore Vic20 including power cords and Vic20 to RCA cable
Commodore 1084 monitor
Commodore 1541 floppy drive with a box of 25 DD disks
1530 Datassette Unit model C2N

Assorted books:

Kids and the Vic
Personal Computing on the Vic20
Vic20 Programmer’s Reference Guide with Vic20 Schematic Main Logic diagram
Vic Revealed
Vic Games
Vic Graphics
Stimulating simulations for the Vic20

Assorted Cartridges:

Programmer’s Aid Cartridge
Fourth Encounter – game
The Sky is falling – game
Machine Language Monitor Cartridge

And an interesting item I was told was kind of rare.

The Dalco memory expander, v20-27k includes:
27k memory expander
Three ROM sockets
An expansion connector

At any rate the Vic20 works fine, I test the floppy by formatting a disk and saving a simple program. I have not yet tested the Datassette player. I have sound I have video, life is good. I am in Vic20 bliss.

I also tested the original Vic20 with the Commodore 1084 monitor and got a white vertical bar. I am not even using the RF modulator box. The original Vic20 is prettier its case is not faded at all. I guess it is a spare?

Dirk
 
how it starts

how it starts

That's now it starts... :)

If you get a chance, could you post a picture ( or I can PM you my email, and you can just email me the picture ) of the white stripe ?
patscc
 
Dirk said:
The original Vic20 is prettier its case is not faded at all. I guess it is a spare?

Dirk
Click to expand...

Hi Dirk,

If you like the look of the original case, you could always simply swap the working board into the original case.

Tez
 
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