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SCSI-1 to/from IDE drive converter

Hi

The SCSI to IDE/SD project has had a rather bumpy road but has made a lot of progress none-the-less. Lately one the prototype boards was completed by a builder and brought up to boot into a debug monitor program. So now we know the fundamental hardware design is mostly working.

http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/browse/#view=ViewFolder&param=MINI SCSI to IDE prototypes

However, I think most of the builders who started on the first batch of PCBs have moved on to other projects so we are looking a restart. Now I am thinking of trying a new approach to this sort of "community" project -- quite different from previous projects.

Honestly, I don't want to front another $200 for more PCBs in the hope of this taking off (again) and I don't want to get stuck with a bunch of PCBs no one wants. However, if builders want a board anyway they could send me $20 for the PCB (plus shipping). When enough orders come in to warrant the PCB reorder (10?), I'll make an order and distribute them.

Most likely it will be a while before enough PCB requests come in so I will just take the PayPal emails and put them into a folder. Prior to my making a PCB order, if you want your money back I will refund it. However, that will lower the PCB counter which will delay making the order. Once the PCB order goes through that's it... no refunds on PCBs regardless of how this turns out.

The delay between putting in your money and delivering a PCB could be quite a while. Easily weeks or months. If it never gets enough, I will refund the payments. Is anyone interested?

Let's discuss before anyone does anything. I am extremely leery of taking any sort of "advance" payment but in this case it may be worth trying a limited experiment.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch
 
I'm glad to hear that you're making progress. My soldering skills aren't yet up to assembling a board, but when they are, I'll drop a line.

This really will be a useful project, when complete. I'm currently using a bunch of fairly expensive solutions to keep my old *nix boxen in SCSI disks.

Thanks for working on this!
- Alex
 
Andrew, I can't blame you for wishing to take this approach. Fronting any money on a project is always risky - I wouldn't want to do it. That said, perhaps people that had the previous PCBs could be emailed and allow someone new to take over if they're no longer interested? Might be easier, faster, and quicker to accomplish.
 
Hi,

Most of the builders who've gotten SCSI to IDE/SD PCBs actually bought them so they undisputedly own the boards. Whether they build them or not is entirely up to their owners. I don't see any valid basis for recall on boards builders have already paid for. Issuing refunds brings us right back to where we are now.

My suggestion is to do a clean restart on the SCSI to IDE/SD project. Have all the interested builders chip in their PCB money "at risk" and see where this goes. If it works it may serve as a basis for future vintage computer "community projects" since it spreads the risk more evenly.

As it is now, all the upfront risk is on the initial PCB builder including all the advance funding, time, effort, etc. If the project builders who committed to it beforehand don't follow through, then the initial builder is stuck with the bill for PCBs with no way to recover or even mitigate the upfront PCB cost. The model really sucks and I have experience with it.

After a few dud projects (OPL2, XT-IDE V2, SCSI to IDE/SD, and a few others you may not have heard about) I get reluctant to stick my neck out and get more cautious. If a project looks "marginal" I'd rather just keep quiet on it and spend efforts on projects I think have a real chance of success or otherwise interested in -- things like home brew ECB and S-100 projects. XT-IDE follow-ons, floppy emulators, and the like just aren't that interesting to me. SCSI to IDE/SD seems like a genuinely useful project but has never gathered enough momentum or interest to get it out of the "marginal" category.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

PS what worked well in the case of XT-IDE was the project had a "manager" of sorts at the beginning... Hargle. He was the magic that made it happen. I just did some minor technical work to help push it along when it started floundering.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of emailing previous board owners to see if they would be willing to sell their boards to newly-interested parties at cost to facilitate the project. Sorry, I should have been more clear.
 
Maverick1978 said:
I was thinking more along the lines of emailing previous board owners to see if they would be willing to sell their boards to newly-interested parties at cost to facilitate the project.
Click to expand...

OK, I'll try that and see what happens. At worst they can refuse and maybe it will free up a few boards.

Thanks!

Andrew Lynch
 
Good news! So far, one of the builders has replied and is willing to sell the board and the parts. Please contact me for details.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch
 
This is board #2.

This is a project I am keenly interested in but lack the time to sit down and work on it. I have a bare board available at cost to the first to PM me. :)

-Matt
 
I WOULD be willing to sell my PCB if someone was planning on putting it together right away, but once I am in my new house and all settled in from the move I did plan on finishing it, time has just been short packing and planning a move. I could just then buy one from the next run of PCBs (redesigned or not) and put that together then. I would be willing to pass it on for cost.
 
Hi
Well if we can just reshuffle the existing PCBs so that new builders can participate there may not need to be another PCB run for the build and test phase. If you are planning on building your SCSI to IDE/SD board, I would just keep it. Let's see how this shakes out. Once the build and test phase is complete we can start to plan for an actual production run.

At the moment, we know the hardware is good enough to run Zapple debug monitor so it says the CPU, RAM, ROM, UART, and associated logic is sound. All that's left is a functional check out of the PPI to IDE interface, the SD interface, and the Z53C80 SCSI controller.

We are making progress on the project even if it is just stumbling along. Maybe we'll get there yet.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch
 
lynchaj said:
We are making progress on the project even if it is just stumbling along. Maybe we'll get there yet.
Click to expand...

I'm still here, still have a finished board my wife built and we haven't yet smoke tested. Still looking for time to get a spare weekend or three to throw cycles at it to get Z80 -> Z53C80 -> SCSI talking (as that is my first goal, and to my mind, the biggest challenge).
 
devnull said:
I'm still here, still have a finished board my wife built and we haven't yet smoke tested. Still looking for time to get a spare weekend or three to throw cycles at it to get Z80 -> Z53C80 -> SCSI talking (as that is my first goal, and to my mind, the biggest challenge).
Click to expand...

Hi! Thanks! Well when you do get a chance, we can help you debug the board and get it at least booting into the debug monitor on the N8VEM mailing list. Bob helped with Douglas's board and it boots to Zapple monitor. Once that's running I think we will be good shape. Please let us know when you are ready to give it a try!

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch
 
Hi! Any updates on your SCSI to IDE/SD build and test?

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch
 
Hi! Wondering if there are any news about this converter card.
Thanks.

Jose Ricci
 
Hi! Work continues on the project but at a very low level. There are some PCBs left if you would like to try yourself. Please contact me at LYNCHAJ@YAHOO.COM

SCSI to IDE is also occasionally discussed on the N8VEM mailing list. Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch
 
Hi
There are still about 5 of the SCSI to IDE/SD converter PCBs left. I will send out the remaining PCBs (gratis) to anyone who will commit to building and testing them. The SCSI to IDE/SD project is fading away and it needs some new energy. You'll need to have electronics build and test experience though since this is not a "ready to go" project. It is developmental in nature and there will be software necessary to operate.

Please contact me if interested. Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch
 
I'm not aware of anyone driving it. I was under the impression this was Douglas' baby and he's been busy on other things.
 
Hi
Douglas did get his board working or at least booting to the ZAP monitor so we know that much. However that's as far as development has progressed since then.

AFAIK all of the oft discussed approaches on CCTALK have faded away and if the community is going to have a SCSI to IDE or SD converter something has to happen to either complete this project or do a different one. I feel like I've given this project the good faith effort.

People will argue we should use a microcontroller, FPGA, various SMT doo-dads, blah, blah, blah, but nothing actually gets done or at least nothing gets out to the hobbyists who actually need to replace their rapidly fading SCSI-1 drives. Yes, the Z80 approach is not the most elegant but it *can work* and *has worked* in the past for similar bridges. For example, SASI to parallel, parallel to ST-506/412, etc. We don't need elegant as much as we need a SCSI-1 drive converter!

I would like it if we can actually get something done! Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch
 
Came here through a link in 68k MLA. I know there're a LOT of really smart peeps over there between hacking Radius video card ROMs, diskless SEs, TCIP/IP packet networked disks, and custom boot ROM SIMMs (from curiosity to fabrication!) I hope some interest is peeked over there. I'd love to get a few adapters. Those ACard adapters are unbelievably expensive, and having a relatively affordable adapter would be of great help to everyone.
 
Ebay is flooded with ACard ARC765 adapters with buy now's as low as $75. I doubt you could build this board for that. But eventually the supply will dry up.

AztecMonsters are also ARC765 based and routinely go for $130. Very overpriced considering it's a single chip solution.

This project is more R&D at the moment than cost effective. Though you could reduce the whole board down to a single SoC once all the software was worked out and likely build it for less than $50 in small runs; if someone was willing to front the BoM buy and solder effort.

We just can't seem to hit critical mass on programming interest atm.
 
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