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Which Roland should I hunt for?

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djquu

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Joined
Oct 9, 2012
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46
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Finland
I'm looking for a Roland for my DOS-game computer. I play all types of games ranging all the way from 80's up to circa 1995 (pre-Win95 era). From YouTube I've come to conclusion that it would have to have true MT-32 support (for the likes of old Sierra games)? This would be stricktly for gaming, so it would not necessarily have to be an external module. Also based on YouTube clips, SCC-1 sounds the best in most mid-90's games. Is there any one card/module that provides best of both worlds?

Ideally I would like to get good results with just one Roland (standalone or combined with my AWE32 and Ensoniq Soundscape). I would rather buy one expensive thingy that two semi-expensive ones.. unless I get the two semi-expensive ones from the same seller and combine P&P costs. :D
 
If you want one, expensive unit, go for the Roland CM-500. It includes both LS and GS sounds. Be prepared to drop around $400 or so on it, shipped, and note that it does not have the screen for you to get the SYSEX messages from Sierra games (i.e. Insert Buckazoid)

If you want to get off a bit more cheaply, get an external MT-32 and an external SC-55MKII. You'll drop around $75 on the MT32, and around $100 on the SC-55MKII. You'll get LA sounds from the MT-32, and the extended GS sounds from the MKII.

If you want to deal only with internal cards, purchase the LAPC-I for MT-32 sounds, and the SCC1 for SC-55 sounds (or SCC1a for SC-55MKII sounds). If you've already got a sound card with a waveboard header, you can track down the SCB-15 or SCD-70 Roland wave cards and get SC-55/SC-55MKII sounds, respectively.

If you're playing early midi, such as from 1988 and prior, you may want to get an intelligent-mode Midi card. Examples include a true Roland MPU-401 card: an MPU-IPC-T with breakout box, MPU-401/AT (I would love one of these, but haven't found one yet), or if you're a microchannel PS/2 nut, an MPU-IMC-T card with breakout box. Non-Roland alternates include the Midiman MM-401 card and the Music Quest MQ32 MQX-32M. Note that guys on QuestStudios forums have found that these tend to work a little better in faster machines, and still offer Intelligent Mode (rather than UART/dumb mode offered by most sound cards)

Cheaper alternatives to the Intelligent Mode cards are just to use a plain old midi/joystick port on your favorite sound card, then use software patches to trick the games into thinking that you're using an intelligent-mode controller. IIRC, NewRisingSun has created several of these, and I believe that they're available over at SierraHelp.com

Also, some people have had great success in uploading MT-32 sounds to sound cards with external memory for uploading sounds. I haven't tried this, and don't even have instructions to do it (though I suspect that there's threads on QuestStudios about it)

If you're starting to get the idea that there isn't a perfect, one-synth-fits-all gambit for gamin, then you're right :) If you're a gaming purist, hate hearing hanging/missing notes, then you'll probably end up investing in several synths... since games written to take advantage of bugs in the MT-32 gen 1 might not sound right when played with an MT-32 gen 2, or a MT-32 clone. etc, etc, etc....

I started out with an MT-32, and then added probably close to a dozen other synths covering the gambit from Roland though Turtle Beach and Yamaha, both internal and external, and really the only thing I'm still after is the Roland MPU-401/AT.... Welcome to the addiction :)
 
Thanks for an extensive, if somewhat depressing, answer. :p I pretty much knew that the answer in short would be "no" but had to ask to be sure. So, two or more it is.

I've only dealt with cards so far, are external modules easier or more laborious to deal with (to work with physically and to configure)? Do cards gather noise from other cards/motherboard/psu etc (enough to be audible when combined with another DAC-card)? Can I use either one of my previous cards with SCB-15 or SCD-70?

And finally the million dollar question: which ones am I likely to find, and where? SC-55's seem to be easiest to locate, several being available on eBay even now, what about the rest?
 
External modules are pretty easy to deal with, as long as you have a card with MIDI output configured properly. I'd definitely recommend a real MT-32, they're not too expensive and the LA sounds are oh so sweet. SCC-1 might be handy, but you can only use it with a computer with an ISA slot, so if you ever moved to DOSBox or something you'd have to get an MT-32 anyway.
 
... what he said :)

About 1/2 of my gear came from eBay, the other half by putting up want ads here (some purchased from former member PeterNY and some from the Marketplace)

Most of the gear is easy enough to find - just maybe not at the price point you're after. Peter would be the first to tell you that eBay isn't the only place to look. He used to frequent European marketplaces, and that was where most of his gear came from (he had several of most of the Roland gear, as well as many Creative sound cards)

If you're patient, you can find a first generation MT-32 on ebay in the $50 range. Just go check every few days for them... SC-55 and SC-55MKII will usually run a little more - usually around the $100-150 range. I've been after an MKII for about 2 years now, only recently finding one at a price I was willing to pay (I refused to pay >$75 shipped)

Deals are out there, if you're patient.

So far as internal vs. external? It's choice, IMO. So long as you've a properly configured midi card, external is plug and chug, and you get the cool little screen messages on your MT-32, and swapping units is as easy as swapping cords. Internal units can be a bit more finicky, but you can't beat the real estate savings on the desktop, nor the cleaner wiring, since you're mainly just using short loopback cords between internal cards.
 
I have a MT-32 model 1 paired with a sound blaster 16. as previously stated the sb16 isnt completly compatiable with the mt-32 but patches for the sierra games arnt to hard to find and use. lucas games like x-wing and indiana jones work without any fiddleing. i'll admit it took me awhile to figure out how to set the thing up at first with getting a joystick port to midi cable then what goes where and the 1/8 phono jack adaptors then playing around with the mixer for the sb16 for it to work. to be honest i'm still not sure I have it working 100% it works and displays and i hear it but sometimes the static and noise is horrible and you really have to fine tune and play with the volume levels to get it to something approching acceptable. i'd love to find a dedicated midi card for it but i've never seen one, not even on ebay. i find breakout boxes all the time but never the cards. I think from what I've read the Ensoniq audioPCI cards can handle both modes from its midi port and they are supposedly very compatible with DOS for a PCI card but i've never tried it.
 
I'd honestly run both the MT-32 and the sound card into a separate mixer/amplifier, rather than running the MT-32 through the sound card - output quality on even the good ISA sound cards can vary pretty significantly, so odds are you're just degrading the MT-32 by doing that.
 
I was also thinking about a small external 2-channel mixer for combining wave and midi, but would it need to have amplifier-functionality?

Apart from the missing screen, is LAPC a true alternative to MT-32? What kind of a midi-interface card (ISA) would be recommended with an MT-32?

My Soundscape is an ISA card (as is my AWE32), not PCI, if that makes any difference. In fact, is either one of these cards a worthy companion for a Roland or do I need a new card for DAC as well?
 
djquu said:
I was also thinking about a small external 2-channel mixer for combining wave and midi, but would it need to have amplifier-functionality?

Apart from the missing screen, is LAPC a true alternative to MT-32? What kind of a midi-interface card (ISA) would be recommended with an MT-32?

My Soundscape is an ISA card (as is my AWE32), not PCI, if that makes any difference. In fact, is either one of these cards a worthy companion for a Roland or do I need a new card for DAC as well?
Click to expand...

I assume you have viewed both these wikipedia entries : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_MT-32 & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-compatible_computer_games

A true Roland MPU-401 or 100% compatible interface is what you are supposed to use, but your Soundscape may have the ability to fool most games that require intelligent MPU-401 features.
 
djquu said:
I was also thinking about a small external 2-channel mixer for combining wave and midi, but would it need to have amplifier-functionality?
Click to expand...
You'll need an amplifier in there somewhere, if not in a separate unit then built into the speakers. The MT-32's a little quiet, or at least mine is.

Apart from the missing screen, is LAPC a true alternative to MT-32?
Click to expand...
Yes, the LAPC is basically an MT-32 and a MIDI interface on a card. The SCC is the one you want to avoid, it's a different, more sample-based synthesizer that features a compatibility mode for the MT-32 default patches, but can't mimic custom patches like Sierra games use.

What kind of a midi-interface card (ISA) would be recommended with an MT-32?

My Soundscape is an ISA card (as is my AWE32), not PCI, if that makes any difference. In fact, is either one of these cards a worthy companion for a Roland or do I need a new card for DAC as well?
Click to expand...
Just about any PC sound card has MIDI output capability, even if it's through a joystick-port dongle. As long as it sends out the MIDI data and the programs you're trying to use work with it, you're good.
 
Now that I come to think of it, I have no idea how to actually connect a PC to a midi module.. :oops:

Apparently I could use a cable that uses game-port DB15 connection and converts it into two DIN-5 connectors? Do these plug into an MPU or directly to a midi-module? Is this foolproof or does it work only for some (hopefully most) games?

What about games where I need midi-module and joystick, like the beloved TIE Fighter? Do I need to buy an extra game-port card?
 
djquu said:
Now that I come to think of it, I have no idea how to actually connect a PC to a midi module.. :oops:

Apparently I could use a cable that uses game-port DB15 connection and converts it into two DIN-5 connectors? Do these plug into an MPU or directly to a midi-module? Is this foolproof or does it work only for some (hopefully most) games?

What about games where I need midi-module and joystick, like the beloved TIE Fighter? Do I need to buy an extra game-port card?
Click to expand...

i think this is the cable I use http://www.ebay.com/itm/Midiman-Sou...bles_Snakes_Interconnects&hash=item35bca68a06

it also has an extra cable coming off it with an extra joystick port so you can have your midi module hooked up and still have a connection for your joystick. Its worked fine for me in X-wing. i get the MT-32 sound and my joystick support
 
I have my own question though. I've never used amplifiers/mixers. other then sound cards my experence with sound systems is pretty limited. can anyone give me an example of a mixer/amplifier I could use with my sound blaster/mt-32 to hopefully improve the quality?
 
@oblivion... keep searching ebay regularly. Search globally if need be (use advanced search). I search for the following: (1) mpu-401 on titles only, (2) mm-401 and mqx-32m in titles and descriptions... I've found a half-dozen of these in the last year, both Roland and Midiman/M-Audio. Be aware that these do require a 9-pin to 2x midi 5-pin connectors, and you may need to custom-wire one (about $2 in parts and a bit of time) - pinouts for this can be found on Quest Studios forums.

So far as the type of cable to use with your sound card's joystick port, here's what you need although there are certainly cheaper ones available (I believe monoprice.com sells them new for about $7). Note the extra 15-pin connection; this is the joystick pass-through so you can use both midi and joystick at the same time.

The Roland LAPC-1 is a self-contained card, and does not need an additional midi card. Be aware these are expensive.

By far, the cheapest method I've found using a true midi card are the MM-401 cards to drive the MT-32/etc. These cards can usually be had in the $20 range. Best deal that I found was a guy that listed them as "midi cards" and had 3 NIB ones (only 1 dongle though) along with some other useless cards, and a NIB M-Audio midi combiner. $37 shipped... that was 3 months ago. Deals are certainly out there... just be patient, and look. If you're not patient, all can be had, but usually for 3x the price :)
 
Depends upon the types of games you play :) There are two types of midi cards: those that support "normal" or "intelligent mode" midi, and those that support "dumb" or UART midi. Here's a short description about the two different modes.

Sound card joystick ports almost universally only support UART/"dumb" mode. This includes Roland's own RAP-10 sound card. Some midi cards only support UART mode as well.

Intelligent mode wasn't widely adopted in the gaming community, but some of the early midi games will use it, and without Intelligent Mode, one must either patch the software (as in the case of many of the early Sierra Quest games) or one must just work without midi (or at the least, with occasional wrong notes being played)

Great Hierophant has a list over at Vogon's of games that "require" an intelligent-mode MPU-401 card.

I just made the decision to invest in Intelligent Mode-compliant midi cards so I wouldn't have to deal with software patches and the like. Besides, a midi card that supports IM also supports UART, so two birds killed with one stone.
 
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I have to dig out my old Soundscape manuals, it appears that it supports both modes.. :jumping2:
 
DOH! I seem to have lost my Soundscape manual, help!! It looks like ESS Elite without the daughterboard (which I'm absolutely sure it never had).. now I need some way to validate which card this is
 
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