COMMODORE PET 8032-SK and SUPERSOFT HIGH RESOLUTION BOARD - NOT WORKING...

[hawk911]

Thank you once again for your precious information. As soon as I receive the eprom programmer, I will let you know how it goes...

P.s.

I have seen that zimmers has 3 different bin files for the same Eprom... Are they from different PET version or are they equivalent?

 

[giobbi]

I have seen that zimmers has 3 different bin files for the same Eprom... Are they from different PET version or are they equivalent?

can you list this bin files here? There shouldn't be duplicated rom images on the site....

However the romset for 8032 is the BASIC 4.0 romset, business keyboard, plus the char ROM:

kernal: 901465-22 (4k requires a 2532 or 2732+adapter eproms)

edit: 901474-04 * (2k requires a 2716 eprom) >> note: if you experienced some troubles (wrong keys) with your keyboard, use the 901474-04-3681 ROM image.

basic 4: 901465-21 (4k requires a 2532 or 2732+adapter eproms)
basic 4: 901465-20 (4k requires a 2532 or 2732+adapter eproms)
basic 4: 901465-23 (4k requires a 2532 or 2732+adapter eproms)
char: 901447-10 * (2k requires a 2716 eprom)

I marked with an asterisk the ones you missed on your mainboard. Hope there arent' mistakes, I drank too much caipirinhas and beer this evening ;-) Brazil is something like National Lampoons Animal House, "when the going gets tough, the tough get going!" (quando il gioco si fa duro, i duri iniziano a giocare -> italian translation :D )

--Giovi

 

[hawk911]

Hi!! I realize that beer and calpirinhas have "wonderful" side effects, but why miss some funny night?

Well, we agreed that:

UA3 = 2316 ROM 901447-10 and UD7 = 901474-04 2316 ROM (50HZ E000-EFFF) (The ones you told me)

And that's what I miss (for now) on my logic board. So for both I need just two 2316 EPROM (I have bought from Germany too) (Do you think, meawhile it should be wise to buy 4-5 2532 or 2732 eproms?)

This is what I found on Zimmers:

http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/pet/characters-2.901447-10.bin

This is the only one (no duplicates)

and then:

http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/pet/edit-4-80-b-50Hz.901474-04.bin
or
http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/pet/edit-4-80-b-50Hz.901474-04_.bin
or
http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/pet/edit-4-80-b-50Hz.901474-04-3681.bin

Which one is correct?

Don't worry I am still waiting the my postman rings my door bell with the german package... so you may answer after your blood is alcohol-free!

Thank you!!

Stefano

 

[giobbi]

Ok, back on my feet

Then:

901447-10: no doubt on it. It's the ROM with the chars map. This is the one that tells to the computer how to draw the characters. When this ROM is broken, you will have strange chars or no chars at all. We can say it's the char font (...more or less... )

--------

901474-04: this is the "official" Edit ROM. The edit ROM also contains the keyboard map: simplifying a lot, it's the program that tells to the computer that when you press the "A" key, it must to display the "A" char on the screen. Of course things are a little more complicated, but just for you understanding.

901474-04_: this is another version of the edit ROM. Probably somebody in the past dumped (extracted) the ROM content from its computer and found it was different from the "official" one.

901474-04-3681: same thing. [note: "3681" is just the manufacturing date (36° week, 1981). You can find this info on most ICs ]

Now:what is the correct one among these three versions? What should you use? Nobody can tell you that

In my 8032-sk there was a wrong ROM, so when I pressed the "A" key I got an "E" on the screen, etc. I found that the 901474-04-3681.bin fixed the problem. So I suggest you to try this one (901474-04-3681) as first ROM image; if it doesn't work for you, try the other ones. In every case, using the wrong image will not harm your computer.

I can only suppose that 901474-04 is for the 8032 computer, while the "901474-04-3681" is for the 8032-sk version. Maybe the "901474-04_" is for 8096 and 8296, I don't know. I could test it into my 8296, but I should to put on socket the edit Rom and honestly I don't want to do that.... However I'm just supposing that without proofs or clues, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

About 2532/2732: probably you wouldn't need that, so there's the risk to buy and not to use.

Now, I'm a little bit paranoid and I like to have spare parts for future fixing, expecially when these parts ran out of production a long time ago and in the future it will be harder or impossible to find (some of them are already hard to find today).
This paranoia helped me a lot to have the needed parts for fixing my C= computers; and of course it's quite boring to wait for weeks every part you need for fixing.
If you feel the same need, I think it's safe to buy right now some of these spare parts, like 2532 (or the cheaper 2732), some 2114 (video ram), some 4116 ram, the crtc chip, and of course 6520 (already hard to find), 6522, 6502, 74154, etc. I can also tell you (here or in PM) the name of the sellers where I bought them on eBay recently. But this is just my opinion and my paranoia, it doesn't mean you have to agree with me on that.

-- Giovi

 

[crock]

901474-04: this is the "official" Edit ROM. The edit ROM also contains the keyboard map: simplifying a lot, it's the program that tells to the computer that when you press the "A" key, it must to display the "A" char on the screen. Of course things are a little more complicated, but just for you understanding.

901474-04_: this is another version of the edit ROM. Probably somebody in the past dumped (extracted) the ROM content from its computer and found it was different from the "official" one.

901474-04-3681: same thing. [note: "3681" is just the manufacturing date (36° week, 1981). You can find this info on most ICs ]

Now:what is the correct one among these three versions? What should you use? Nobody can tell you that

The only difference between these ROM versions is some very slight CRTC adjustments. No keyboard differences. I dumped them all into a spreadsheet a couple of years ago and compared them. They're all 50hz but have slightly different sync positions and a different number of scanlines.

cheers, Rob

 

[giobbi]

The only difference between these ROM versions is some very slight CRTC adjustments. No keyboard differences. I dumped them all into a spreadsheet a couple of years ago and compared them. They're all 50hz but have slightly different sync positions and a different number of scanlines.

cheers, Rob

Hi Rob,


In first I have to say I went back in my previous posts and I discovered I did a mistake in my latest post: the working one (for me) is the 901474-04.bin, the wrong one (for me) is the 901474-04-3681.bin.

...however I'm missing something... Let me explain what I did and why I'm saying they have a different key mapping:

- I had a problem with the original edit ROM I found into my 8032-sk. The keyboard matrix was shifted by 1 row, 1 col, compared with the keyboard matrix shown on the schematics.
- I programmed a 2716 with the 901474-04.bin image, and it fixed the issue.
- I dumped my original 901474-04 ROM code and I compared it with the 901474-04-3681.bin content: no differences.

I'm not saying I'm right, of course, maybe there's another explanation for that; simply, it was a logical explanation for that, basing on the clues. Maybe the ROM is defective and react in a wrong mode when it is in the 8032, but it still works fine into an eprom programmer, using the 2532 -> 2732 adapter. boooh?

When I will have a minute, I will try to program a 2716 with the 901474-04-3681.bin code and see what happens....

--Giovi

 

[crock]

Hi Giovi - Sure, I could be wrong too, but i opened my old ssheet and the only differences are in the crtc controller values and a checksum byte. If it is whatwas causing your issues it's via an indirect route. Its easy to prove though, just load the images into vice, set the model to an 8032sk and see what happens.

Rob

 

[hawk911]

Hi, As usual Thanks to everyone! I will try both solutions as soon as I receive the EPROM PROGRAMMER and the TWO EPROMs 2716. I bought them from Germany, so they shoudn't take too long. MEanwhile, I wish to have some spare parts too, so I have bought some 2732, just in case. (Then I will ask you more info one socket modifications. I read some old posts, and it's simple, the only thing I did not understand well, is why the two diodes? And what kind of diodes are they?

Meanwhile I am waiting for the postman to ring my door bell with all the things I need, I would like to bother Giovi with another question:

I read somewhere on the net that you built your own pet disk. I have done it too. But I have difficulties in programming the ATMEL, I mean I programmed it, but it gives 3.46v on pin 23, while the creator of PETDISK (I contacted him) told me it should be this way. He told me maybe a wrong fuse settings.

Could you tell me the right fuse settings for ATMEL168, and could you send me the bootloader.hex file? (The bin I downloaded from the web site)

Thank you in advance for your help on this "temporary" sub-thread...

)

 

[Clint]

I have an SK landed on my deask today too, I am in the UK, let me know if you would like to see my rom images too and I will upload them.

On a side note do you have a pcb drawing for the petdisk ?

 

[giobbi]

I have an SK landed on my deask today too, I am in the UK, let me know if you would like to see my rom images too and I will upload them.

Hi Clint,

well, if you want to compare your edit ROM with the images posted on Zimmers and make a test with the 901474-04-3681.bin image on your SK: does your keyboard works fine with this ROM?

Soon I will put my hands on a 8032 (not SK) so I will check these three ROM images on it and will report the result here.

On a side note do you have a pcb drawing for the petdisk ?

I wished to scan it when I received my Petdisk kit, but I forgot to do and remembered only when I was in the middle of the assembling step, the smoking solder in my hand
But with a little of patience you should be able to make it using Eagle and the schematics from www.bitfixer.com.

-- Giovi

 

[giobbi]

Hi, As usual Thanks to everyone! I will try both solutions as soon as I receive the EPROM PROGRAMMER and the TWO EPROMs 2716. I bought them from Germany, so they shoudn't take too long. MEanwhile, I wish to have some spare parts too, so I have bought some 2732, just in case. (Then I will ask you more info one socket modifications. I read some old posts, and it's simple, the only thing I did not understand well, is why the two diodes? And what kind of diodes are they?

You don't need to make that adapter. Just to clarify:

- if you use a 2732 eprom, you only need to make an adapter using three wires (no diodes). You can find a simple explanation on my site, www.verrua.org (see commodore -> 3032 garbage).
- if you use a 2532 eprom, you need an adapter just to read and program it, and only if your eprom programmer doesn't support 2532. There's a thread about it on the forum, but since I did one of them some weeks ago, I can help you with more details. Diodes should be 1N4148 if I'm right. Try to find the thread and read it.

Meanwhile I am waiting for the postman to ring my door bell with all the things I need, I would like to bother Giovi with another question:

I read somewhere on the net that you built your own pet disk. I have done it too. But I have difficulties in programming the ATMEL, I mean I programmed it, but it gives 3.46v on pin 23, while the creator of PETDISK (I contacted him) told me it should be this way. He told me maybe a wrong fuse settings.

Could you tell me the right fuse settings for ATMEL168, and could you send me the bootloader.hex file? (The bin I downloaded from the web site)

Thank you in advance for your help on this "temporary" sub-thread...

)

I got my PET disk as kit, so the ATMEL came already programmed. I can't figure how you programmed it without a programmer; however your eprom programmer probably will support it, so you only need to wait some days more
BTW what eprom programmer did you buy (brand/model) ?

--Giovi

 

[Clint]

Hi Clint,

well, if you want to compare your edit ROM with the images posted on Zimmers and make a test with the 901474-04-3681.bin image on your SK: does your keyboard works fine with this ROM?

Soon I will put my hands on a 8032 (not SK) so I will check these three ROM images on it and will report the result here.



I wished to scan it when I received my Petdisk kit, but I forgot to do and remembered only when I was in the middle of the assembling step, the smoking solder in my hand
But with a little of patience you should be able to make it using Eagle and the schematics from www.bitfixer.com.

-- Giovi

I will check the ROM's this week and report back, I may upload them to my new blog just for contents sake lol

I got the schematic and code from the site but could not find the .sch I will produce one but I am slow and if someone else had done the work............

 

[giobbi]

I got the schematic and code from the site but could not find the .sch I will produce one but I am slow and if someone else had done the work............

I'm quite new to Eagle, but IMO if you only need the pcb design, you don't need to build the .sch before, just drop the components in pcb design mode and let it to autoroute the pcb. I find it brutal but quite fast, you don't even need to choose the right IC, just choose a generic DIL ic with the right pins amount and draw the traces...

 

[hawk911]

Hi Giovi, I have a AVR programmer. With AVR I programmed a lot of ATMEGA8 and 16. But I don't know what is the right fuse settings. I already blew up a ATMEGA168 trying to program it for the PETDISK I have built, and I didn't want to repeat the experience... if you had an AVR programmer could u upload the bin / hex file you read from your ATMEGA168 and write down the fuse settings?

Thanks in advance.

P.S.

No sign of the postman with my eprom programmer...

Let's wait...

 

[Clint]

No sign of the postman with my eprom programmer...

Let's wait...

I also purchased a TOP Programmer from ebay - 10 weeks so far

 

[giobbi]

Hi Giovi, I have a AVR programmer. With AVR I programmed a lot of ATMEGA8 and 16. But I don't know what is the right fuse settings. I already blew up a ATMEGA168 trying to program it for the PETDISK I have built, and I didn't want to repeat the experience... if you had an AVR programmer could u upload the bin / hex file you read from your ATMEGA168 and write down the fuse settings?

Thanks in advance.

P.S.

No sign of the postman with my eprom programmer...

Let's wait...

I haven't an AVR programmer (I don't even know what is it...) but your eprom programmer should be able to program the ATMEGA. See the compatibilty list...
about fuse setting, I don't know what you mean; but a common usb eprom programmer usually just requires you choose the type/brand/model of your eprom/eeprom/flash/etc. to be programmed.
The atmega168 content is available on the petdisk site (petfixer.com), so there's no need to upload here a copy...

cheers,
Giovi

 

[giobbi]

I also purchased a TOP Programmer from ebay - 10 weeks so far

Didn't you open a claim on Paypal? You have about 45 days to do that; usually when you open a claim, the seller do his best to solve; and however you have the paypal program protection, that usually works fine. But you must to open the claim! 10 weeks is a long time... too long!

 

[hawk911]

Hello everyone! Here I am again! Eprom programmer has arrived and I programmed the two 2716 eprom, as suggested.

My eprom programmer is a TOP853 with TOPWIN6 programmer. Everything seemed to go fine, even if programmer returned me a "verify error", but if I manually read the chip eprom and match with the zimmers bin file everything matches ok.

So, I programmed the two EPROMs corresponding to UA3 and UD7 on my PET. I inserted into my PET and... voilà... it switches on without the SUPERSOFT HIGH RESOLUTION BOARD (before programming these 2 eproms, that was necessary or it would not switch on at all)

First time I switched on it appeared a strange character on the bottom of the screen, (this behavior sometimes happened also with the supersoft board, before programming the EPROMs) if I switch it off and on it disappears and keyboard works okay.

THE PROBLEM IS I STILL HAVE 56 bytes RAM.... damn it!!!! Holy s***!! Why???? I can't understand... The first tests I have made when I switched on the PET I had all the RAM, and then suddenly, as you already know, it disappeared...

...so I moved the first steps, I replaced this two eproms... now, what, next??

Please, help me! It's been driving me crazy!!! )

Thanks in advance!!!

Stefano

 

[hawk911]

HI, Clint... I would like to try and replace all the capacitors you suggested me: I found the 3 47uf capacitors (C7, C9, C11)...

but I can't find the 25uf 25V axial... which is that one? I can't even find it on the parts list... I only see 10uf 25V... could you help me?

Thanks!

Stefano

 

[giobbi]

Hello everyone! Here I am again! Eprom programmer has arrived and I programmed the two 2716 eprom, as suggested.

My eprom programmer is a TOP853 with TOPWIN6 programmer. Everything seemed to go fine, even if programmer returned me a "verify error", but if I manually read the chip eprom and match with the zimmers bin file everything matches ok.

So, I programmed the two EPROMs corresponding to UA3 and UD7 on my PET. I inserted into my PET and... voilà... it switches on without the SUPERSOFT HIGH RESOLUTION BOARD (before programming these 2 eproms, that was necessary or it would not switch on at all)

First time I switched on it appeared a strange character on the bottom of the screen, (this behavior sometimes happened also with the supersoft board, before programming the EPROMs) if I switch it off and on it disappears and keyboard works okay.

THE PROBLEM IS I STILL HAVE 56 bytes RAM.... damn it!!!! Holy s***!! Why???? I can't understand... The first tests I have made when I switched on the PET I had all the RAM, and then suddenly, as you already know, it disappeared...

...so I moved the first steps, I replaced this two eproms... now, what, next??

Please, help me! It's been driving me crazy!!! )

Thanks in advance!!!

Stefano

Don't worry, I was (we were?) suspecting that

sometimes components simply give up when powered after some years sleeping. I fixed my 3032, left it off for a night, and when I switched it on the day after, it refused to boot. The 7425 ic in the ram section "died" during the night. You could have a similar problem. Nothing you can't fix by yourself. Just relax and take it easy

The good news is: now you have a standard computer, without any "strange" add-on board that could interfere with the diagnostic.

First step: try to program a 2716 with the pettester CRTC image and put it in place of the Kernal ROM (I always used a 2732 eprom and a socket adapter for that purpose until Mike told us you can use a 2716 since the image is 2k only...). You should look at the upper half of the screen only (the lower half will be full of garbage of random chars, because this version was an port of the 40 columns, no CRTC version). You will see two screens endless swapping: the full ASCII pattern and some "g" and/or "b" lines. Look at this second screen. If you will see all "g", it should mean the RAM is ok. If you see some "b", maybe some RAM chips are damaged (maybe!). I mean the main ram (4116), not the video ram (2114).

This is a quick test you could do while Mike and some other smart guys will read this post; this way, they will have more info for a diagnosis.

Don't worry, this problem should be easy to solve: hey, the computer is booting, just a little ram size problem, I wish had your same problem in the past... my issues were really worse than that... the fine part of these computers is: there's always a way to fix them at home! And the good part is that for this model you can find all the components yet!