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Partial/full cleanup of harddrive on 5160 XT: what are my options?

I

ilyaz

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
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148
Location
MD near DC, USA
This morning I picked up an at least partially functional IBM PC XT 5160. It has a harddrive and the machine boots at least partially. Did not have a chance to test it any further since I don't have a keyboard or monitor for it. Now I have a tricky task. The lady who gave me the machine was concerned about any personal data that might still lurk on that drive, although it's been a long while since anyone in the family used that machine. So she asked me to make sure that data, if any, does not get leaked. As far as I can see my options are:
1. Pull the current drive out, destroy it and then find a replacement, install DOS on it etc
2. Access the drive in some way, format it entirely, then install DOS.
3. Access the drive in some way, explore it and delete any non-standard data files.

#1 seems to be too brute force plus finding a replacement disk might be hard.

So for #2/3: would I have to do with the drive in-place, or is there some type of adapter I can use to connect the drive to my laptop as an external USB disk, sort of like I would an IDE or SATA harddrive?

The reason I want to pull it out is that to do it in-place I have to get a monitor for the XT, which I am hesitant to do since I am not sure I want to keep the machine in the long run. But if I pass it along to someone else, cleaning up the disk becomes even more critical.

Thx
 
I don't think you will be able to accomplish any of your above listed options without both a monitor and keyboard.

There is no possibility of accessing the hard drive in the manner you have mentioned, 'as an external USB disk, sort of like I would an IDE or SATA harddrive.'

The only real possibility is to move the hard drive *and* its controller to another computer you might have and access from it there. That means you would need to have a computer with ISA slots on the board.
 
ilyaz said:
This morning I picked up an at least partially functional IBM PC XT 5160. It has a harddrive and the machine boots at least partially. Did not have a chance to test it any further since I don't have a keyboard or monitor for it. Now I have a tricky task. The lady who gave me the machine was concerned about any personal data that might still lurk on that drive, although it's been a long while since anyone in the family used that machine. So she asked me to make sure that data, if any, does not get leaked. As far as I can see my options are:
1. Pull the current drive out, destroy it and then find a replacement, install DOS on it etc
2. Access the drive in some way, format it entirely, then install DOS.
3. Access the drive in some way, explore it and delete any non-standard data files.

#1 seems to be too brute force plus finding a replacement disk might be hard.

So for #2/3: would I have to do with the drive in-place, or is there some type of adapter I can use to connect the drive to my laptop as an external USB disk, sort of like I would an IDE or SATA harddrive?

The reason I want to pull it out is that to do it in-place I have to get a monitor for the XT, which I am hesitant to do since I am not sure I want to keep the machine in the long run. But if I pass it along to someone else, cleaning up the disk becomes even more critical.

Thx
Click to expand...

Just deleting or erasing files from the hard drive doesn't mean it's secure. You must wipe the drive by writing zeros across the whole surface. You need a program like this one: http://www.killdisk.com/features.htm (happens to be free)
 
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What Timo said. Low Level Format is a pretty standard procedure that'll be needed to keep the drive reliable anyway.

If you have a 286/386/486 era machine lying around, you could move the card/drive over to that - no BIOS change is even required because they have an extension ROM on the card. No guarantees here, but if you have a machine like this lying around it could be a fairly quick / low cost solution - and would let you sell / pass on the XT in a booting condition.
 
Just a wild thought: I'm guessing you also don't have the ability to make a 5.25" boot floppy disk, but if you did you might be able to create a boot floppy with the command "ctty com1" in the autoexec.bat and then control it via a the serial port. You could then at least use something like Norton wipedisk to wipe it. Not sure if the BIOS LLF tools would work like that.

For the video, another option to consider is finding an 8-bit compatible VGA card. Those are always good for troubleshooting, even on 386/486/early Pentium machines. Much easier to sell or store away too.

For a keyboard any ratty 8088/286 switchable keyboard would get the job done.

And yes, you will want to low-level format anyway which will absolutely wipe all of the data.
 
SpidersWeb said:
What Timo said. Low Level Format is a pretty standard procedure that'll be needed to keep the drive reliable anyway.

If you have a 286/386/486 era machine lying around, you could move the card/drive over to that - no BIOS change is even required because they have an extension ROM on the card. No guarantees here, but if you have a machine like this lying around it could be a fairly quick / low cost solution - and would let you sell / pass on the XT in a booting condition.
Click to expand...

FWIW: Once upon a time while employed by a large US Government agency, I had some computer forensic responsibilities. It was not considered okay to simply format a hard drive, low level or otherwise. The entire disk had to be written to, or zeroed, prior to disposal. The average person normally isn't privy to higher level data recovery software (both - government and bad guys), but trust me, it's out there.
 
Writing 0's to an MFM drive will still, in theory, leave the drive recoverable due to faint signal left behind. Writing random bytes to the drive will definitely kill all hope of recovering the data.
 
Why not use a bulk eraser as used for mag tape? They are pretty ferocious things, will cause serious upsets to mechanical wrist watches. Only real snag is whether the drive will fit between the poles, about 1.1/2" or so.
 
Trixter said:
Writing 0's to an MFM drive will still, in theory, leave the drive recoverable due to faint signal left behind. Writing random bytes to the drive will definitely kill all hope of recovering the data.
Click to expand...

I was referring to super zeros. ;)
 
The average zero. It has a nice ring. A name for a band maybe.

All this talk of anti-forensic wiping of this old hard drive has made me curious. Is there anyone here that has the skills, and equipment to read the previously recorded data from an old MFM drive after a low level format?
 
Trixter said:
Writing random bytes to the drive will definitely kill all hope of recovering the data.
Click to expand...
At the hardware level, there was the possibility of specialised data recovery hardware that took advantage of track wobble. Sounded like something that only large governments could afford to develop. Maybe nothing came of it.

Agent Orange said:
FWIW: Once upon a time while employed by a large US Government agency, I had some computer forensic responsibilities. It was not considered okay to simply format a hard drive, low level or otherwise. The entire disk had to be written to, or zeroed, prior to disposal.
Click to expand...
And for certain higher classifications, the drive would be destroyed. e.g via supervised smelting.
 
Agent Orange said:
It was not considered okay to simply format a hard drive, low level or otherwise.
Click to expand...
Well, we are not talking about a hard drive with highly sensitive data here. A low-level format is more than enough. Also, afaik, a simple software solution wouldn't be enough to recover data from a hdd that has been low-level formated. You would need some special hardware interface that takes direct control of the hdd's heads - and that is unlikely to still exist for such old MFM/RLL drives.
 
OK thanks for the suggestions (and all the zero jokes! :D)

I'll set this machine aside for now while I search for a suitable monitor.

By the way, is there anybody in the DC/Baltimore area who has one and might be willing to lend it to me for a couple of days?
 
The best way apparently to completely destroy data is to physcially destroy the drive! I usually keep an eye out in the gaylords here at work for vintage computer gear. I was miffed to find a stack of old parallel IDE drives that had been perforated multiple times by a machine press. The contents sounded like rocks in the case!
 
ilyaz said:
I'll set this machine aside for now while I search for a suitable monitor.

By the way, is there anybody in the DC/Baltimore area who has one and might be willing to lend it to me for a couple of days?
Click to expand...
Keeping us in the dark will not help you one little bit! How do we know what type of monitor you're after if you don't give us a clue as to what type of video card is in that machine? :) Of course, I have a multisync which doesn't care about the video card but not all monitors are so user friendly. :)
 
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