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Should I buy a Tandy 1000 or IBM Jr?

Should I buy a Tandy 1000 or IBM Jr?

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TheChaoticToast

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Mar 11, 2015
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I am interested in purchasing a computer that is slow enough to play games from the 80's. I am not a big fan of emulators, so please don't advise those. I have to opportunity to buy a IBM PC jr with 640k RAM running DOS 3.3 or a Tandy 1000 running DOS 2.0. Both are the same price!!! Were the Compatibility issues a big problem for the IBM? Thanks in advance!
 
The PCJr is a pretty cool little machine :), if it comes with 640KB I would get it.

Both are very close, same graphics & sound, no DMA, hard to expand (although the T1000 has more room), etc. The PCjr has cartridges, the Tandy has a built-in DOS ROM. Talking about compatibility, I'm not sure about the issues; but they must be mostly the same in both machines...
 
For games, you'd probably want a Tandy 1000. I have a PCjr and I love it, but I've ran into more than a few games that have problems running on the PCjr but were advertised as being Tandy 1000 compatible. That said, I wouldn't *trade* my PCjr for a Tandy 1000. I'd only get a Tandy 1000 if I could keep them both set up.
 
Given a choice my vote goes to the Tandy 1000. But try to get at least a 1000 SX. It has 5 expansion slots. And can be switched to turbo mode (7.16Mhz) with a key combo. Can run a XT-IDE HD controller in it as well.
 
The PCjr only lasted a short time, while Radio Shack kept selling Tandy 1000s for years and years, well into the early '90s. Thus you have a lot more to choose from with the Tandy, both in terms of hardware and software. And the later 1000RL, SL, and TL models feature additional sound and graphics capabilities that the PCjr did not have.

The PCjr is a cool collector's item, and has strong niche interest among enthusiasts, but the 1000 series is a more practical machine to own and use.
 
IBM Peanut - all stock Intel and ttl ic's

Tandy 1000 - even earliest models have custom logic

But for what's mentioned above, this is a toughy. The 1000 is everything the jr is and more, if nothing else in terms of expandability. Those damned asics though.

IMHO the Peanut is more collectible. Not because the 1000 was made by Crapshack. Just because it's more of an oddity (and rarer I guess).

Good luck chasing down all the aftermarket addons that could be grafted onto the jr. But seeing it has 640k already, you're part of the way there at least.

I'm amazed no one offered an upgrade to the jr that allowed you to drop the mainboard into a clone case. Something to think about . . .

I really like the Peanut. Much more interesting then the 1000. But you'll have more fun w/the 1000 (more ready s/w and h/w options), at least until you learn how to deal w/the jr's quirks.
 
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Some facts about the PCjr:

  • The first DOS that can run on the PCjr is PC-DOS 2.1. (That is the version that the PCjr launched with.) The PCjr can run up to PC DOS 3.3 with no extra effort. You can run PC DOS 5 and later versions with some minor patching to the boot sector code if you have 256KB.
  • A PCjr must use a device driver if you want to recognize any memory past 128KB. If you are booting DOS that is not a problem. If a game needs a lot of memory that might be a problem. (Most games that are PCjr aware know what to do.)
  • Software that assumes a perfectly register compatible IBM PC may not run on a PCjr. Things that cause problems are programs that hit the floppy hardware directly (COPYIIPC) and some games that assume a CGA card is in use. Some of these can be patched or were fixed in later versions. Others have PCjr specific versions (COPYIIJR).
  • A PCjr can use an XT-IDE; I know because I did it. But really what you want is the jrIDE sidecar, which upgrades a basic PCjr to 736KB, adds a hard drive interface, adds a real time clock, and adds some FLASH storage that we're eventually going to use.
  • The PCjr does have a custom ASIC - the VGA (Video Gate Array) chip that drives the video is custom.

All in all, the PCjr is a nice, quirky machine. Want a second floppy drive? You have to hack it on. Want a bi-directional parallel port? Get out your soldering iron. Want another parallel port? Get the soldering iron out again. It's a very "hands-on" machine.

If you are not the hands on type, get a basic machine (128K) and add a jrIDE sidecar and a parallel port sidecar. That gives you a 736KB system with an IDE hard drive and a parallel port for running things like Zip drives or a Xircom PE3-10BT Ethernet adapter. (I was going to say printer, but who does that anymore?) That's a pretty capable setup with a minimum amount of work.

Relevant links:

 
I went with the Tandy 1000's because they are cheap and easy to find (or were at the time I was looking). The 1000HX is what I started with because it has all you need for gaming built in, and I snagged a dual floppy 1000 model because I found it locally.
 
EDIT: I posted this before checking if the purchase had already been made, but my advice is still useful so it will remain:

I am interested in purchasing a computer that is slow enough to play games from the 80's.
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I am a subject matter expert in this area (proof available upon request), and my advice, if you can only afford a single system, is to get the Tandy 1000. That way, you will have the least compatibility issues and the largest library of titles to pick from.

That being said, if you can afford both, get both. They are both interesting, historically and technically. For example, the PCjr is interesting to look at and handle since it is small, light, and uses a wireless keyboard. There are also a few games that will only use enhanced graphics and sound on a PCjr. But, the PCjr definitely has some compatibility and expandabilty issues, so it may not serve your "I just want to play DOS games" needs as well as a Tandy 1000 might.

For the record, I own several PCjrs as well as several Tandy 1000-class systems.
 
Hi,

I just wanted to add that the tandy comes with a monitor and keyboard, but only 128k of ram. It is the original one as well. The pc jr has 640k, comes with a monitor, keyboard, a couple games (nothing big ) , a printer, and a second floppy drive. Both are the same price, but I own dos 2.0 fir the tandy, and dos 3.3 will with the jr. This is a bit of a curve ball, but I think the jr maybe more compadible at this state..... I can't wait to hear back from you!
 
My recommendation might be a bit off-topic, but for playing 80's games I'd get a Turbo XT clone and maybe add an Adlib-compatible sound card (e.g. 8-bit compatible SB or clone). Less compatibility issues, more upgradeable (if you choose too), and probably it would be less expensive than PCjr or Tandy 1000...
 
I'd have to recommend the Tandy 1000 over the PCjr... though that's mainly because I never could do much on a friend's PCjr in high school, compared to my other friend that had a Tandy 1000EX. The EX was eventually expanded to 640k and an aftermarket 30MB Seagate SCSI external hard drive setup, using a header to card slot ribbon cable, and ST-02 controller. We played many hours of Simcity, Starflight (which had an enormous world for the space requirement), and F-19 Stealth Fighter (we blew up many virtual bridges in virtual eastern Europe...) It was still fun and usable with just 256k though.

The 1000EX also had a better keyboard than the PCjr, and was faster.

The Tandy has better graphics and sound than a stock XT of the era, and you don't have to find an 8-bit VGA card and 8-bit Adlib/Soundblaster to upgrade it. My friend even built a little ISA backplane card (home made, hand laid out traces using the Radio Shack home PCB etching kit), with 3 ISA slots, so he could run an 8255 I/O interface (also home made), along with the HD controller, and still have one extra. The extra color over CGA and sound capability, was used in all three games mentioned above.

He also had the Plus card 300 BPS modem, which we used to dial in to local BBSes, my first online experiences really...

I have a 1000EX, 1000HX and 1000TX in my collection... the 1000TX gets the most use, with an XT-IDE CF hard drive (the 20MB MFM based hard card had a bad drive), and a 3c509 card for network access.
 
HoJoPo said:
The Tandy has better graphics and sound than a stock XT of the era, and you don't have to find an 8-bit VGA card ...
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You don't have to in any event, but if you want VGA graphics you will. And incidentally most 16 bit ISA VGA cards work in 8 bit computers.

HoJoPo said:
My friend even built a little ISA backplane card (home made, hand laid out traces using the Radio Shack home PCB etching kit), with 3 ISA slots, so he could run an 8255 I/O interface (also home made)...
Click to expand...

What about the 8237 for DMA?

I guess we can conclude that of the 2 the IBM PS/2 Model 25 is the superior choice.
 
HoJoPo said:
I'd have to recommend the Tandy 1000 over the PCjr...
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If you want to play games and not tinker, then I agree.

The 1000EX also had a better keyboard than the PCjr, and was faster.
Click to expand...

I disagree with the keyboard comment. Surprisingly, the much maligned chicklet keyboard of the PCjr is actually pretty good and I prefer it to the "professional" keyboard. I never did like the Tandy 1000(EX/HX) keyboard very much due to the odd key travel.

I like the HX the most out the early machines due to the size factor. I tend to favor the smaller machines over the expandability, but to each their own.

I do like tinkering with the PCjr though... it's an interesting early machine. All that said, I do miss my HX. :(
 
TheChaoticToast said:
I just wanted to add that the tandy comes with a monitor and keyboard, but only 128k of ram. It is the original one as well.
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Without the RAM card that adds DMA and boosts it up to at least 384KB or higher, you won't be able to run many games that use Tandy graphics. The PCjr system you listed, however is very well built out (very rare to find a second floppy drive) -- at this point you should get that instead if the Tandy seller can't cough up the memory card.

In fact, that much of a built-up PCjr system might have the "Tandy mod" applied to its motherboard, which increases compatibility with Tandy 1000 graphics games. So if those are your choices, you should get the PCjr.
 
tipc said:
What about the 8237 for DMA?

I guess we can conclude that of the 2 the IBM PS/2 Model 25 is the superior choice.
Click to expand...

The DMA controller on the EX was part of the Tandy memory upgrade card (same for the HX). It supplied two additional expansion connectors, one was used for the Tandy Plus card 300 baud modem, the other for the ribbon cable to an ISA card socket, that came with the hard drive kit (and was used with the little 8-bit ISA backplane to provide three slots instead of just one.)

I have a genuine Tandy memory upgrade in my HX, aftermarket upgrade in my EX, both with the DMA controller.

As for the Tandy 1000(A), without the memory upgrade card / DMA controller they're not very useful with just 128k of RAM. You can find pretty good deals on the Tandy 1000TX/TL/TL2/TL3 on eBay, and those are 8Mhz 80286 based, but still 8-bit bus based, so you have a few more games you can run and support 640k on the motherboard with built-in DMA. The TL3 is a 10Mhz 80286, and even supports HD 1.44MB 3.5 floppy drives.

The 1000TX looks just like the 1000SX, a lot like the original 1000. The TL/TL2/TL3 have an updated case that doesn't have the same "vintage" look.
 
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HoJoPo said:
It supplied two additional expansion connectors, one was used for the Tandy Plus card 300 baud modem, the other for the ribbon cable to an ISA card socket, that came with the hard drive kit (and was used with the little 8-bit ISA backplane to provide three slots instead of just one.)
Click to expand...

No, it simply supplied two pass through stacking connectors for additional PLUS cards. You could put whatever cards you wanted on top of the memory expansion. It made no difference and there were no restrictions.
 
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