XT-IDE issue in real XT

[Gabucino]

Howdy fellas!

First time poster here. Thought I'd ask for some input on this...

I have XT-IDE on several AM27C128-150DC EPROMs (shipped+programmed by buyicnow.com). Now, it works correctly in a 386 with either a DEC DE100 (ROM mapped to DE00), or a NE2000-clone (ROM addresses linked to jumpers, see manual here: http://www.invisiblesoft.com/invlan/download/manual/2000pxv2.zip).

But neither of those cards work in my DTK/Siemens 8088! Depending on the used memory address, either the BIOS doesn't even come up, or the XT freezes after the memory test - when the ROM execution would start. I've tried every mem mapping option.

Now one would straightforwardly think that the ROM is 286+ but it isn't, I've tested it with PCE-IBMPC.

Another answer would be that the XT somehow has problems with boot ROMs but no, when I flip a DEC PathWorks MOP boot ROM into the DE100 (also 27C128), it runs correctly.

Therefore: every combination works, except the one I want (XT-IDE in XT...) I'm out of ideas. :/

--
Check out my collection: http://gabucino.hu/inv.htm

 

[modem7]

Howdy fellas!

No 'howdy' for the ladies ?

First time poster here.

Welcome to these forums.

But neither of those cards work in my DTK/Siemens 8088!

Looking at your web site, that will be a reference to the DTK PIM-TB10 motherboard (with Siemens 8088 fitted) of yours. It is better to refer to that as an XT clone motherboard rather that a "real XT", because I am sure that most people consider a "real XT" to be an IBM XT.

I have XT-IDE on several AM27C128-150DC EPROMs (shipped+programmed by buyicnow.com).

Please be specific as to what the "XT-IDE" BIOS expansion software is. For example, is it the XT Universal BIOS ?

The BIOS software (which you have put on a network card) is expecting a compatible IDE controller to be present. What controller do you have on your PIM-TB10 motherboard ?

Therefore: every combination works, except the one I want (XT-IDE in XT...) I'm out of ideas. :/

Have you tried running the PIM-TB10 motherboard in 'normal mode' (4.77 MHz) rather than 'turbo mode' (10 MHz) ?

 

[Gabucino]

Looking at your web site, that will be a reference to the DTK PIM-TB10 motherboard (with Siemens 8088 fitted) of yours. It is better to refer to that as an XT clone motherboard rather that a "real XT", because I am sure that most people consider a "real XT" to be an IBM XT.

Well, everyone has their faults.

Please be specific as to what the "XT-IDE" BIOS expansion software is. For example, is it the XT Universal BIOS ?

No, that "XT universal BIOS" must be something else. I have the XT-IDE universal BIOS.

The BIOS software (which you have put on a network card) is expecting a compatible IDE controller to be present. What controller do you have on your PIM-TB10 motherboard ?

The motherboard does not have any IDE controllers, why would it? That would be a strange XT indeed. In any case the XT-IDE BIOS actually does not seem to require any IDE controller, as it works in PCE yet that software does not emulate any of it. I've tried with an IDE-equipped SB16, but it still freezes without even displaying the welcome header.

Have you tried running the PIM-TB10 motherboard in 'normal mode' (4.77 MHz) rather than 'turbo mode' (10 MHz) ?

Yes I have, though I'd be very much surprised if that made any difference, considering how the XT-IDE is meant for all CPUs.

 

[nc_mike]

Howdy fellas!

First time poster here. Thought I'd ask for some input on this...

I have XT-IDE on several AM27C128-150DC EPROMs (shipped+programmed by buyicnow.com). Now, it works correctly in a 386 with either a DEC DE100 (ROM mapped to DE00), or a NE2000-clone (ROM addresses linked to jumpers, see manual here: http://www.invisiblesoft.com/invlan/download/manual/2000pxv2.zip).

But neither of those cards work in my DTK/Siemens 8088! Depending on the used memory address, either the BIOS doesn't even come up, or the XT freezes after the memory test - when the ROM execution would start. I've tried every mem mapping option.

Now one would straightforwardly think that the ROM is 286+ but it isn't, I've tested it with PCE-IBMPC.

Another answer would be that the XT somehow has problems with boot ROMs but no, when I flip a DEC PathWorks MOP boot ROM into the DE100 (also 27C128), it runs correctly.

Therefore: every combination works, except the one I want (XT-IDE in XT...) I'm out of ideas. :/

--
Check out my collection: http://gabucino.hu/inv.htm

Is the XT-IDE possibly conflicting with some other device's BIOS at address Cxxx range? If so, there is a trick I used to force the XT-IDE to start at at higher available address range (forcing it to use the Dxxx range) by bending out one of the XT-IDE's IC pins. That resolved the conflict I was having (in my situation) with a high density (1.44M) FDC whose BIOS insisted on occupying the Cxxx range. There is an alternate work-around if the cause is the BIOS address space conflict by reprogramming the XT-IDE EPROM, but I found bending out the one IC pin and tying it was the easier of the two work arounds.

If that is the conflict, I resolved it by modifying the starting BIOS address of the XT-IDE adapter. To do so, pull the XT-IDE controller BIOS chip out of its socket, find and bend a particular pin #12 out so that it no longer makes contact, wire it to pin #3 and re-seat the BIOS chip - that shifts the XT-IDE BIOS starting address from C000 to D000.


Regards,
Mike

 

[Gabucino]

Is the XT-IDE possibly conflicting with some other device's BIOS at address Cxxx range?

Unfortunately no, I've tried all kinds of addresses (set with jumper on a NE2000), and checked them with DEBUG beforehand.

I plugged it in the BIOS/ODD socket (because why not), and it appeared correctly after F000, but of course option ROMs are not checked for in the BIOS address space. But I have the feeling that it would still only hang.

 

[sergey]

I have XT-IDE on several AM27C128-150DC EPROMs (shipped+programmed by buyicnow.com). Now, it works correctly in a 386 with either a DEC DE100 (ROM mapped to DE00), or a NE2000-clone (ROM addresses linked to jumpers, see manual here: http://www.invisiblesoft.com/invlan/download/manual/2000pxv2.zip).

But neither of those cards work in my DTK/Siemens 8088! Depending on the used memory address, either the BIOS doesn't even come up, or the XT freezes after the memory test - when the ROM execution would start. I've tried every mem mapping option.

I am confused. What is your IDE hardware on that XT clone machine? Are you using an actual XT-IDE card, or you're trying to make an AT-style IDE work there? Why are you putting your XT-IDE BIOS extension in a network card? (I guess it would make sense if you want to use XTIDE Universal BIOS with a regular IDE card on a i386, say to make it support bigger disks that are not supported by the system's BIOS).

Now one would straightforwardly think that the ROM is 286+ but it isn't, I've tested it with PCE-IBMPC.

Yeah, right. Are you certain your emulator was configured for 8088 CPU emulation and not for 80188? Because 80188 will execute happily all these real-mode instructions that for whatever reason some people call 286+.

 

[Gabucino]

Yeah, right. Are you certain your emulator was configured for 8088 CPU emulation and not for 80188?

Fairly. Same goes for selecting the correct (8086) ROM.

 

[Malc]

Well, everyone has their faults.

If it's not a true blue IBM XT then it's a clone

No, that "XT universal BIOS" must be something else. I have the XT-IDE universal BIOS.

I'm sure that's what Modem7 meant, XT-IDE Universal Bios

The motherboard does not have any IDE controllers, why would it? That would be a strange XT indeed. In any case the XT-IDE BIOS actually does not seem to require any IDE controller, as it works in PCE yet that software does not emulate any of it. I've tried with an IDE-equipped SB16, but it still freezes without even displaying the welcome header.

Obviously not built into the motherboard but like Modem7 said, The bios is expecting a compatible controller to be present, However if everything is configured and working correctly you should get the XT-IDE Universal bios screen up even with no controller present, Obviously it just won't find anything. Now this brings on the question:

What revision of the XT-IDE Universal Bios are you using ?
How was the Bios configured before being programmed to Eprom, IE: controller card, Address etc, XTIDECFG.com is used to configure the bios before burning to Eprom. There has been several threads on here regarding using SB cards in the past and one such thread is here.

Yes I have, though I'd be very much surprised if that made any difference, considering how the XT-IDE is meant for all CPUs.

That depends on how the bios was configured / Built / What modules were used in the build.

 

[pearce_jj]

You can find current pre-built binaries here.

The BIOS initialising and the detecting of drives are two very separate issues. The BIOS should / will appear, if the ROM is present and not conflicting. This requires ONLY free memory space in which the ROM chip will occupy. Of course to detect drives, you also need the IO port hardware (of a supported controller).

That the machine hangs might indicate a conflict, a bad ROM (most ROM slots on cards are not buffered), or the system bus might be running faster than the ROM chip can handle (someone mentioned 10MHz further up).

 

[Gabucino]

For posterity: after flashing into 2764s (instead of twice into 27128) it works in the XT too.