Are Tandy 1000 TL models really rare?

[Agent Orange]

You may want to at least consider a SCSI HD. 8-bit SCSI controllers/HD's are available and very reasonable when compared to a vintage 8-bit IDE controllers. However, like everything vintage these days, the prices are increasing. My 1000SX can run the XT-IDE, SCSI, and MFM HD's. I would not recommend a ST-225 due to its age. Your best bet is with the XT-IDE and the CF adapter. However, I did get creative and manufactured a small bracket in order to suspend an IDE HD off the metal chassis support fixture. Whatever way you decide, it will all swing around the type of controller that you choose.

 

[fallemarg]

When it comes to putting storage in the machine, I'm not concerned about going strictly vintage. I would prefer to make one of those XT-IDE cards. I would prefer a media that is more easily replaceable in the event of failure.

 

[fallemarg]

Thanks for the info on the Lo-Tech website. I will be ordering their Compact Flash 8-bit card from there and will be building it shortly. I don't know if anyone here is interested in that but I can post pictures of my poor soldering and any tips would be appreciated.

 

[pearce_jj]

Re soldering, invest in a temperature controlled soldering station, they aren't expensive on eBay. Then get tin-lead multi core solder "60:40", it's much easier to work with than lead-free. Next, when working, tin the bit before you put it down every single time, and wipe in a damp sponge and re-tin before you start to use it again. Use a chisel bit, and apply it on the flat side to the pad such that the side of it is touching the pin to be soldered. Then after a second of so feed in the solder on the pad the other side, i.e. Touch the solder on the pad, not the soldering iron bit. Also make sure to keep your fingers off everything, solder will not flow on the surfaces if there is grease from your skin on it!

 

[fallemarg]

Thank you for the advice pearce_jj. I do indeed use 60:40 rosin core solder and I do have a temperature controlled soldering station. Granted it's nothing impressive, just a $50 cheapie from the local Microcenter but it does the job well enough. Someday I will get that Weller station with the desolder vacuum and variable temperature controls. I don't have a chisel bit though, so I will have to see if I can go get one. I know about the solder to the item soldering rather than the tip, but my hands shake a bit from my Lyme Disease, so it probably will get touched. I have been successful at small soldering projects and I really like those kits from Vellemann and build them all the time, even though I really have no use for the end product.

 

[pearce_jj]

but my hands shake a bit from my Lyme Disease, so it probably will get touched.

I have unsteady hands at times that make it tricky to solder as well - but I can only sympathise. What I would say though is that bits do need changing, for me quite often. If the solder won't run, don't press on and instead wait until you have a new bit

 

[fallemarg]

The Pencil tip I have works quite well, and I make certain to keep the tip tinned and working. I haven't had any issues with the small kits I have done in the past though so maybe I can do it with the pencil tip I have?

 

[wesleyfurr]

For anyone in the market for a cheap soldering station, I have a Yihua 936, bought cheaply from Hobby King - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_US_Warehouse_.html

You can't beat it for the price...at least not from what I've seen and for what I use it for. I did also get a chisel tip for it, pretty sure it was a Hakko...the Yihua is an obvious knock-off of a Hakko model. The tip that came with it worked well, but one board I was struggling to get the solder to suck down onto the pads. Someone suggested a chisel tip and it's been on there ever since. If your pencil tip works for you, go for it...but if you have problems getting stuff to solder well, it may be worth investing in a chisel tip.

Wesley

 

[MattA]

I'm not sure that they're rare, but I've had mine for awhile. I bought it new in 1989!

I'm glad you found one. I actually think it's the best all around early DOS machine that was available.

 

[fallemarg]

So far with what I can do with it, the machine is a nice little machine. But until I build myself an 8-bit IDE card, I'm kinda stuck in the neutral position.

 

[jmetal88]

I think I may have forgotten to mention -- when I picked up the machine the seller showed me you could get to Deskmate by pressing F12 (I think?) after booting up. If you haven't figured that out yet, that might be something to mess with. I think it's in ROM somewhere.

 

[fallemarg]

I have been reading the Tandy 1000 TL manual and tips information I found online. Booting into deskmate in rom is cool, but you then have to load the disks to get to the files. I just need to get that 8-bit IDE controller. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[waltermixxx]

I recommend the Lo-Tech ISA Compact Flash isa card, works very well. I use it in my TL. It's all through Hole soldering and parts are readily available.
the surface mount soldering parts on the back are not required on the Tandy 1000 TL I think he will even sell them complete (not too sure about that part.)

but it's a great little card.

https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_ISA_CompactFlash_Adapter_revision_2b

Just reading back a few posts, i noticed that it's already been recommended. but seeing as I am using it with a TL i figure it's worth it to keep the post.
works great with the TL

I did have to use the idextcfg.com configuration program to change the Boot Settings to 81h from the default 80h that way it would boot directly from compact flash keep in mindy you use the xtidecfg.com to load the IDE_XTP.bin file, make the change, save it back to your floppy, then run the flash unitilty with:

FLASH IDE_XTP.BIN C8000 and then reboot, and it should reboot to your flash drive ( assuming you have already formatted it and installed Dos. ( in my case Dos 5.0 ) let me know if you run into issues

 

[fallemarg]

I recommend the Lo-Tech ISA Compact Flash isa card, works very well. I use it in my TL. It's all through Hole soldering and parts are readily available.
the surface mount soldering parts on the back are not required on the Tandy 1000 TL I think he will even sell them complete (not too sure about that part.)

but it's a great little card.

https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_ISA_CompactFlash_Adapter_revision_2b

Just reading back a few posts, i noticed that it's already been recommended. but seeing as I am using it with a TL i figure it's worth it to keep the post.
works great with the TL

I did have to use the idextcfg.com configuration program to change the Boot Settings to 81h from the default 80h that way it would boot directly from compact flash keep in mindy you use the xtidecfg.com to load the IDE_XTP.bin file, make the change, save it back to your floppy, then run the flash unitilty with:

FLASH IDE_XTP.BIN C8000 and then reboot, and it should reboot to your flash drive ( assuming you have already formatted it and installed Dos. ( in my case Dos 5.0 ) let me know if you run into issues

I did indeed order that specific board. Do I need to attach all of the surface mount pieces to make this work in the Tandy? I have never done surface mount and I may need to take it to a friend of mine to get those parts mounted. I did order them just in case. Now, from what I have read, DOS 3.3.22 only supports a 32MB partition. I have read the DOS 3.3 supports additional partitions, but I am uncertain as to how you set them up without using something like FDisk.

I thought about using one of those 128MB Disk on Modules that someone pointed out. The only problem I forsee is file transfers. I have a bunch of games here on floppy that support the TL sound system, but they are all on 1.44MB HD floppies, so they won't work. With a CF card I can transfer files easily by plugging it into my desktop and installing games to the drive via a USB Floppy drive. Interestingly, all of the 5.25 disk games I have are 360K disks rather than 1.2MB. Very confusing as I didn't think the Tandy 1000 machines supported 1.44MB drives until the RSX or RLX?

I was under the impression that the RSX and RLX were less compatible than previous models of the 1000 line. Any information from people who have actually used the machines would be appreciated. There is so much misinformation online that I don't know what is accurate and what is not. Like I got a 2500 SX/33 and someone said it has the PSSJ sound chip, but if it does, nothing detects it. Very confusing.

 

[Trixter]

Now, from what I have read, DOS 3.3.22 only supports a 32MB partition. I have read the DOS 3.3 supports additional partitions, but I am uncertain as to how you set them up without using something like FDisk.

You can create ~20 32MB partitions, but most people using an XT-IDE variant go with a later version of DOS so they can create 2G partitions which is a lot more convenient.

With a CF card I can transfer files easily by plugging it into my desktop

This is the route I use on one of my vintage systems, with a CF card bracket so I have external access to the card without opening up the system. However, I'm using a traditional IBM; your Tandy systems have less slots so this might use up a slot unnecessarily.

The primary DOS partition will show up in Windows with a USB CF card reader (other partitions don't, so plan accordingly -- make the C: drive as large as possible for flexibility).

I was under the impression that the RSX and RLX were less compatible than previous models of the 1000 line.

They are less compatible with Tandy 1000 programs because they don't support the 16-color Tandy 1000-specific graphics mode. However, they have built-in VGA graphics, which greatly expands the number of programs you can run, so in a way they are more compatible. There are very few games you will run that only support 16-color graphics on Tandy 1000 systems; most support Tandy 1000 in addition to EGA so you should be fine.

There is so much misinformation online

The wikipedia article is generally accurate, as is The Tandy 1000 FAQ.

Like I got a 2500 SX/33 and someone said it has the PSSJ sound chip, but if it does, nothing detects it. Very confusing.

The RSX does contain a PSSJ chip, but unfortunately the hardware address for the chip was moved so it isn't detected and, in fact, nothing will use it unless they have specific support for the RSX. I don't recall why they moved the port, but it may have been to increase the compatibility of the RSX which was meant to compete with other clones. There are Windows 3.x drivers for the RSX which use the PSSJ's DAC, if you want digitized audio and don't want to install a sound blaster. But the 3-voice audio is usually not usable on an RSX system unless the rare game allowed you to specify it during installation (I don't recall I've ever seen this but it's possible a late-era Sierra game may have this as an option).

 

[Cloudschatze]

Tandy moved the PSSJ starting address from C0 to 1E0 in the "AT-class," 2500/RSX systems, as it would have conflicted with the second DMA controller otherwise. I think IBM can be blamed for creating this problem.

All of Sierra's SCI0 and SCI1 games can produce 3-voice music and digitized sound on the 2500/RSX systems. The SCI0 titles require the use of a specific driver, while the native SCI1 Tandy sound driver(s) will auto-detect the address. Several Broderbund, Virgin, and Disney titles will also correctly detect and utilize a 1E0-addressed PSSJ.

Besides being my favorite Tandy 1000 system, the RLX actually has a dual-ported PSSJ that can be written to at both the C0 and 1E0 starting addresses, for what it's worth...

 

[fallemarg]

Where can I find that specific SCI0 driver, because I tried loading King's Quest V and it did not find the PSSJ sound at all. Also Prince of Persia didn't find it either. Is it possible that something is wrong with the chip on 2500SX?

 

[Great Hierophant]

I did indeed order that specific board. Do I need to attach all of the surface mount pieces to make this work in the Tandy? I have never done surface mount and I may need to take it to a friend of mine to get those parts mounted. I did order them just in case. Now, from what I have read, DOS 3.3.22 only supports a 32MB partition. I have read the DOS 3.3 supports additional partitions, but I am uncertain as to how you set them up without using something like FDisk.

I thought about using one of those 128MB Disk on Modules that someone pointed out. The only problem I forsee is file transfers. I have a bunch of games here on floppy that support the TL sound system, but they are all on 1.44MB HD floppies, so they won't work. With a CF card I can transfer files easily by plugging it into my desktop and installing games to the drive via a USB Floppy drive. Interestingly, all of the 5.25 disk games I have are 360K disks rather than 1.2MB. Very confusing as I didn't think the Tandy 1000 machines supported 1.44MB drives until the RSX or RLX?

I was under the impression that the RSX and RLX were less compatible than previous models of the 1000 line. Any information from people who have actually used the machines would be appreciated. There is so much misinformation online that I don't know what is accurate and what is not. Like I got a 2500 SX/33 and someone said it has the PSSJ sound chip, but if it does, nothing detects it. Very confusing.

No surface mount component soldering is required for Tandys. You use FDISK to set up a primary partition and an extended partition. The primary partition can be up to 32MB and is the C: drive. You can make as many drives in the extended partition as you have space for and drive letters for, and each drive will be 32MB. Thus, you can have a maximum disk space of 736MB with DOS 3.3.

Tandy 1000s that support 1.44MB floppy disks are the TL/3, RLX and RSX. Games that support Tandy sound tended to come out in 360KB and 720KB floppies, so you have either later slash releases or later games that really tended to require something more powerful than a TL.

The RLX is less compatible than the TL series because it does not have Tandy video support. The RSX has no Tandy video support and they moved the PSSJ to a different set of I/O ports, thereby breaking hundreds and hundreds of games.

 

[Great Hierophant]

Where can I find that specific SCI0 driver, because I tried loading King's Quest V and it did not find the PSSJ sound at all. Also Prince of Persia didn't find it either. Is it possible that something is wrong with the chip on 2500SX?

You may need a driver from a later SCI1 game for King's Quest V, but only the 3-voice music is supported in that game. The SCI0 driver can be found in a bunch of Sierra Utilities pulled from its BBS.

 

[Cloudschatze]

Where can I find that specific SCI0 driver, because I tried loading King's Quest V and it did not find the PSSJ sound at all. Also Prince of Persia didn't find it either. Is it possible that something is wrong with the chip on 2500SX?

If you're referring to the 256-color, floppy version of King's Quest V, put the attached driver in your game directory, and either run through the installer again, selecting "Tandy 2500 XL" as the sound device, or just manually edit the "soundDrv" line in the RESOURCE.CFG file with a "TANDYXL.DRV" entry.

View attachment TANDYXL.zip

If you're referring to the CD-ROM version of King's Quest V, simply run the installer and select "Tandy 3 Voice" for music, and "Tandy with DAC" for audio. The installer will complain that your system does not support the choices. Ignore it, and proceed with those selections.

I don't believe Prince of Persia is one of the Broderbund titles that supports a 1E0-addressed PSSJ. If version 1.4 doesn't, you're probably out-of-luck.