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NEWDOS/80, HxC format problems

G

Gazza

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2013
Messages
151
Location
Sydney, OZ
Oh Wow .. Thanks for the quick response.. I have been banging my head against the wall for a few days now.. Very frustrating ....
I definitely see similar issues no matter what format I try. With Single density single side 40 tk, it writes a few sectors on track zero then aborts. I can look at the raw sectors as see that it did in fact start to format. Can format a real floppy disk with any combo Single/Double 80tk, mixed density ( CK ) ... no problem...
I have tried 3 different LNW80's and 2 additional spare EI boards with the same result. Wasn't sure if it was the machines as they are heavily modified with memory & speed upgrades. Some have Z80H and others have HD64180 upgrades I did myself (Wire-wrap city ). The only Stock LNW80 Model 2 I have wouldn't boot up.. Needs power supply fixed.. parts on the way...

HD64180 - now that sounds interesting. Home made XLR8er?
I've tried 2 different HxCs on 2 SYSTEM-80s and a 4P with the same results.

Ah... your stage name is familiar.... did you do ROMDOS/80?

Guilty as charged.
cheers
Gazza
 
Gazza,
Jeff answered me over at
http://torlus.com/floppy/forum/viewt...&t=1587#p12221

Says I need a faster SD Card...

I just tried a class 10 from my digital camera but even though it works perfectly in the camera and formats OK with SD Formatter, Windoze won't play with it, Oh well back in the camera it goes.

Seems strange that the HxC would need a high performance card since my FreHD is quite happy using an old Class 2 card.

I see from your link that the 305 RPM trick worked, I've also checked the HxC index pulse on the CRO and compared it to my Teac drives and could not see much difference in the waveforms.
more research (beer) required
Gazza
 
Yea the format works but.... when I convert the HFE after a NewDos80 format back to jv3 or dsk or dmk trstools cannot read the file.
So no help.... I need for move them to Windows so I can burn a CD. Should last longer than floppys do.
 
Gazza said:
Ah... your stage name is familiar.... did you do ROMDOS/80?

Guilty as charged.
cheers
Gazza
Click to expand...

Well that's cool.
I went a different direction. Put a stack 41256's in place of the 4116's. Then wrote a RamDrive program that loads NewDos80 into Ram and places the physical drive in slot 4. Runs fast... LNW80's, Model 4's got 4 stackes. Could only get 3 Stacked in the 4p's and get the shield back on.
But more work then your solution.... :)
 
Evad said:
Yea the format works but.... when I convert the HFE after a NewDos80 format back to jv3 or dsk or dmk trstools cannot read the file.
So no help.... I need for move them to Windows so I can burn a CD. Should last longer than floppys do.
Click to expand...

Attached is a zip containing my "Load Raw Image" profile and a copy of my NEWDOS/80 80trk DSDD boot disk in jve and hfe.
Give these a go, works perfectly on my System-80 and Trstools has no problem reading the image.
cheers
Gazza

Ok I was going to attach the above files - too large.
SO
attached is a copy of my 305RPM "Load Raw Image" profile
 

Attachments

  • Sys80_80Trk_DSDD-Blank-305RPM.zip
    202 bytes · Views: 1
Gazza said:
Attached is a zip containing my "Load Raw Image" profile and a copy of my NEWDOS/80 80trk DSDD boot disk in jve and hfe.
Give these a go, works perfectly on my System-80 and Trstools has no problem reading the image.
cheers
Gazza

Ok I was going to attach the above files - too large.
SO
attached is a copy of my 305RPM "Load Raw Image" profile
Click to expand...

Thanks I'll give it a go....

Dave
 
Gazza said:
Attached is a zip containing my "Load Raw Image" profile and a copy of my NEWDOS/80 80trk DSDD boot disk in jve and hfe.
Give these a go, works perfectly on my System-80 and Trstools has no problem reading the image.
cheers
Gazza

Ok I was going to attach the above files - too large.
SO
attached is a copy of my 305RPM "Load Raw Image" profile
Click to expand...

Gazza,
Formatted perfectly!:)
However, after copying about 25 files to the new virt disk I got a "Wrong Sector type" Error. :shocked:

Well, for now I give up until I get the faster card and see if it does in fact make a difference. Should have it in a week.

So, Tell me about the FreHD? What do you think about it?
I think this may be my next purchase.. Also looking at the M1SE but it doesn't look like an open source device.
Do you know if we can have another device on the buss at the same time? I have several Corvus Hard drives I would like to get the data off of as well.
 
Evad said:
Gazza,
Formatted perfectly!:)
However, after copying about 25 files to the new virt disk I got a "Wrong Sector type" Error. :shocked:

Well, for now I give up until I get the faster card and see if it does in fact make a difference. Should have it in a week.

So, Tell me about the FreHD? What do you think about it?
I think this may be my next purchase.. Also looking at the M1SE but it doesn't look like an open source device.
Do you know if we can have another device on the buss at the same time? I have several Corvus Hard drives I would like to get the data off of as well.
Click to expand...

I'm lost, that profile works on both of my System/80s, see what happens with the new card or maybe Jeff might come up with an answer.

No personal experience with the M1SE but I know one person that has one and is happy with it. Definitely think about getting a FreHD. It mimics the old TRS-80 8x300 and WD1010 hard drives so if it worked with the original it should work with the FreHD and with a rom change can boot directly off the FreHD, also the FreHD is happy running on an old class 2 card!!.;)
LNW80, I'll leave that one to you.:D

As to running multiple devices off the external buss - I used to run a Tandy hard drive and a Symphony 90 on my 4P and they played nice together, other devices, who knows.

If you want to PM me your email address I'll send you a JV3 and HFE of my 80trk DSDD boot disk.
cheers
Gazza
 
For anyone that needs it..

The HXC SD Floppy Emulator is one clever piece of work. After digging into the code and observing it's operation with a scope it became clear that in order to make sure the emulator didn't miss any data the index pulse is held down longer than a normal physical floppy disk drive pulse when necessary. By holding the index pulse down longer the HXC can then have time to write to slower SD cards. This 'throttling' ( Longer Pulse width ) will look like an incorrect RPM
to any OS that is checking.

SYS6 Zap for NewDos80 v2.0 model 1
Since the HXC SD Floppy Emulator uses a throttling technique to handle slower SD cards and the fact that NewDos80 is sensitive to the incorrect RPM of floppy disk drives during format operations, I have created this zap to bypass the RPM checking during the format operation.
I can now format HFE disks with my LNW80 without getting the 'Motor Slow' error using a Sandisk 8gb. Ultra SDHC Class 10 at 40MB/s read (Not sure the Write speed)

A disassembly below of SYS6/SYS

6BD0 ED42 SBC HL,BC .B
6BD2 DA7D6C JP C,6C7DH .}l ; Motor Fast test
6BD5 017D00 LD BC,007DH .}.
6BD8 B7 OR A .
6BD9 ED42 SBC HL,BC .B
6BDB D2826C JP NC,6C82H ..l ; Motor Slow test
6BDE 3E88 LD A,88H >.
6BE0 32C446 LD (46C4H),A 2.F

Using Superzap F,42,DA,7D,6C
That will get you on the correct sector within the file

Change to:

6BD0 ED42 SBC HL,BC .B
6BD2 000000 NOP NOP NOP ; Motor Fast bypass
6BD5 017D00 LD BC,007DH .}.
6BD8 B7 OR A .
6BD9 ED42 SBC HL,BC .B
6BDB 000000 NOP NOP NOP ; Motor Slow bypass
6BDE 3E88 LD A,88H >.
6BE0 32C446 LD (46C4H),A 2.F

If this Zap does not make sense to you
Or you are unable to operate Superzap
then please don't do it...:)

Enjoy
Dave
 
Audronic said:
@Evad

Well done Dave.

Ray
Click to expand...


Thanks ...

Here is the Zap for Model 3/4 - Note I have not un boxed the Model 3, 4 or 4ps yet so this is untested but should work.

NewDos80v2 Model 3/4
SYS6/SYS

6BCE ED42 SBC HL,BC .B
6BD0 DA7C6C JP C,6C7CH .|l Motor Fast Test
6BD3 017D00 LD BC,007DH .}.
6BD6 B7 OR A .
6BD7 ED42 SBC HL,BC .B
6BD9 D2816C JP NC,6C81H ..l Motor Slow test
6BDC 3E88 LD A,88H >.


Change to:

6BCE ED42 SBC HL,BC .B
6BD0 000000 NOP NOP NOP .|l Motor Fast Bypass
6BD3 017D00 LD BC,007DH .}.
6BD6 B7 OR A .
6BD7 ED42 SBC HL,BC .B
6BD9 000000 NOP NOP NOP ..l Motor Slow Bypass
6BDC 3E88 LD A,88H >.

If this Zap does not make sense to you
Or you are unable to operate Superzap
then please don't do it...:)

Enjoy,
Dave
 
G'day Dave
Give yourself a pat on the back.
I just gave your mods a quick run on the 4P and they seem to be working perfectly. I'll give them a go on the System/80 tomorrow.
Just realized I'll have to burn a new rom for the System/80 - first patch in over 25 years.
cheers
Gazza
 
Evad said:
So, Tell me about the FreHD? What do you think about it?
Click to expand...

I wrote this a week ago on the Yahoo! TRS-80 group, but its just as relevant to your question:

"The FreHD emulates the traditional TRS-80 MFM hard drive so as far as the TRS-80 itself is concerned, it's looking at one of those old steel boxes Tandy used to sell for thousands of dollars. Unsurprisingly the majority of people who buy the FreHD are former owners or users of TRS-80s with traditional hard drives back in the day. FreHD uses the unmodified hard disk drivers for LS-DOS, LDOS, Newdos/80 and CP/M 2.2




This is important to understand because in theory other hard disk operating systems like Multidos and CP/M 3.0 should run. The reason the FreHD team has not produced images and boot disks for these two operating systems is that no one has turned up hard disk drivers for them... if someone has the drivers hidden away I'd be more than happy to make a FreHD image for MD and CPM3.




FreHD is now available in a wide price range designed to appeal to both hardware hackers and end-users alike. If you can solder and have drawers of resistors, capacitors, chips, LEDs and SD cards, a skilled solderer can get a $50 Kit B and be up an running a couple of hours later. If you can solder but don't have parts, the new $99 CKD kit comes with all the parts needed, just add a SD card. Then for people who want to more or less plug in and use the system, is Kit C, the most popular form of FreHD. If you are a die-hard hacker you can also make FreHD work on your Kaypro luggable computer.




The alternatives to the FreHD are the MISE and M3SE, which are more sophisticated, have more functions, and are consequently more expensive. I own both and they work fine. Operating system choices are limited to LDOS 5.3.1 for both the Model I and III (or 4 in III mode) though this may have changed by now. I also believe LS-DOS in proper Model 4 mode is in the works. MISE auto-boots on the Model I and M3SE floppy boots on the Model III.




The final alternative is the Lo-tech IDE which is a pure hacker device, so sold only as an unpopulated PCB but is easy to build with commonly available TTL parts. No one currently sells the Lo-tech pre-assembled and tested, and the drivers are standard hard disk drivers patched to work. It doesn't work on the Model I (as far as I know) but it does auto-boot on the 4P. Operating systems supported are CP/M 2.2, LS-DOS and LDOS and maybe Newdos (can't remember at this moment in time). Again I own one, and it works fine. It's a bit finicky about which IDE hard drives will work, but once you have one which does its fast and reliable.




One final note, if you want to use solid state storage on an 8in TRS-80 business computer, the Lo-tech IDE is the only one which works on the Model II/12/16/6000 by using Hans-0x adapters, also available from me. Again it needs a lot of work, but does work on the 8in systems. LS-DOS 6.3.1 in Model II mode is the only currently supported OS at this point in time."
 
Gazza said:
G'day Dave
Give yourself a pat on the back.
I just gave your mods a quick run on the 4P and they seem to be working perfectly. I'll give them a go on the System/80 tomorrow.
Just realized I'll have to burn a new rom for the System/80 - first patch in over 25 years.
cheers
Gazza
Click to expand...

Gazza,
Looks like the Zaps get us passed the format for single density but I cannot format Double density.
Have you checked out the mixed density functionality TI=CK?
I am having issues.
It fails to format double density only.
If I use a Single or double density disk created with sdltrs all is ok even os updates work.
If I create a mixed density TI=CK with sdltrs all is ok until I update it like change pdrive,A table then it's toast after it tries to save the changes.

What are you finding?
 
Evad said:
Gazza,
Looks like the Zaps get us passed the format for single density but I cannot format Double density.
Have you checked out the mixed density functionality TI=CK?
I am having issues.
It fails to format double density only.
If I use a Single or double density disk created with sdltrs all is ok even os updates work.
If I create a mixed density TI=CK with sdltrs all is ok until I update it like change pdrive,A table then it's toast after it tries to save the changes.

What are you finding?
Click to expand...

Hi Dave
Haven't had a chance to try it on the System/80 yet, maybe today! Check bytes 16H - 19H on the HFE header. For a mixed density should be 00 02 00 02
cheers
Gazza
 
Gazza said:
Hi Dave
Haven't had a chance to try it on the System/80 yet, maybe today! Check bytes 16H - 19H on the HFE header. For a mixed density should be 00 02 00 02
cheers
Gazza
Click to expand...

Well that's an Important piece of information to have. :confused:
 
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