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Model 1 fails to boot from disette

O

Olivier Dauby

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
11
Hi *,

While listening to TRS80TrashTalk podcast, I could not resist to try to check if my Model 1 was still alive and kicking after all these years buried in the basement.
Well, good news apparently, at first sight it's not dead:
my_model_1.jpg

*BUT*

When I tried to boot any DOS disk I had (TRSDOS & NEWDOS), disk is spinning, I think I hear the head moving (at least one track), *sometimes* I see the NEWDOS banner, but I always end up with a disk or data error message.

Now, the floppies are 30+ years old, I assume they are not readable anymore.
Back in 2000 I still could read most of my disks I have, but today I even can't boot a DOS anymore...

I'm not really interested in hard disk emulation and I was thinking about purchasing an HXC device from Lotharek.

Is this a good idea ?
Will I be able to boot on the HXC with a Newdos/80 image and copy it to a physical floppy ?
Is there a better option ?

Setup is:
Model 1 Level 2 16K Lowercase mod (26-1006)
Expansion Interface 32K with double density (not percom) (26-1140)
Disk drives (26-1160D/26-1161D)

Kind Regards,

O.
 
If it hasn't been used in that long, chances are your drive just needs a good cleaning and the head is just stuck. If you don't hear any kind of screeching while reading or see any kind of grooves forming on the disks, then they probably aught to be readable.
 
Olivier Dauby said:
When I tried to boot any DOS disk I had (TRSDOS & NEWDOS), disk is spinning, I think I hear the head moving (at least one track), *sometimes* I see the NEWDOS banner, but I always end up with a disk or data error message.
Click to expand...

Have a look at TRS-Ian's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76bVeQP8m3Y . Even though this is for a Model III/4, the disk drive part starting at about 15:07 should be applicable to most drives of the era. When I pulled it out of storage, the drives on my Model III weren't working that well, but lubricating the rails and cleaning the heads was enough to (mostly) get them going again.
 
I don't have too much to add to @gonk23 and @SomeGuy's good advice...thats a good place to start. The drives are just like us...cranky and stiff when sitting for too long! They may just need a little cleaning and lubing.

BTW, thanks for listening to the show. I think we need to do a segment about this. What to do when bringing your old system out of the closet or attic. Stay tuned.
 
I'd be sure to clean the heads VERY CAREFULLY, with a cotton swab and some Alcohol. If there is any brown oxide on the head,
it won't read the floppy, and might even scratch a groove in the floppy. Second thing I'd do is clean the drive guide rails with
Alcohol, and lube them with Dri-Slide, the Motorcycle Lubricant that doesn't attract dirt. I've got a model 4 that won't boot
on power up unless I take a thin wire and reach into the floppy head assemble and move it about halfway up the guide rail.
Then it boots and works fine until next time. I've got to clean and lube it.

Next you need to make a backup of your floppy's, and copy them so you have storage files that can duplicate them.


Larry
 
Olivier Dauby said:
I was thinking about purchasing an HXC device from Lotharek.
Click to expand...

Some links if you haven't found them already:
* Tezza's review: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2014-04-06-HxC-floppy-emulator-as-trs-80M1-disk-drives.htm (but note that you can buy a cased rev c version to avoid creating a case like he did)
* Audronic's problems with his EI and how they solved it: http://www.torlus.com/floppy/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1442 (but apparently may not be a problem with newer EIs: http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1412)
* My video of my Model III with cased rev c: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg53G9RjvMM (but with the Model I you'll be able to easily connect the HxC as drives 0 and 1).

It's worth searching for "trs80" at the HxC forums too: http://www.torlus.com/floppy/forum
 
Thanks.

I cleaned the heads with isopropyl alcohol and gently lubricated the rail with sewing machine oil.
and yay!, it booted :p ...

IMG_20160828_132554.jpg

... but only once :sleepy:

I think there is an issue with the head motor, here is a video of why I think so.

If you have any advice / idea, please shoot. Otherwise I try further (maybe swap the head motor...)


Kind regards,

O.
 
Your Model 1 should seek for Track 0 when you reboot it. There is a caution you need to follow, in that you NEVER want to power UP or DOWN
with a Floppy in the Disk Drive. The Model 1 was bad about writing garbage to the floppy making it un-bootable.

If I remember correctly, I always powered up the Floppy Drives, then the EI, then the Model 1 with the BREAK KEY held Down. That got me
to the CASS? command where I tapped the ENTER key bout 3-4 times, followed by ? MEM
then the ENTER KEY. The available memory would be displayed. At that point I'd insert my Floppy, hit the RESET button and the Model 1 would Boot.
I think what you are seeing is just the movement of the drive motors when you power up, and it's not going through the actual boot process.
What happens if you hit the RESET Button? It should boot again each and every time you depress it, as it is a momentary button.

My thoughts are that you have killed you TRSDOS Floppy. The RESET button will prove that theory.

POWER Down is Opposite of Power UP. Remove Floppy, power down Model1, then EI, then Floppy Drives.

Larry
 
ldkraemer said:
Your Model 1 should seek for Track 0 when you reboot it. There is a caution you need to follow, in that you NEVER want to power UP or DOWN
with a Floppy in the Disk Drive. The Model 1 was bad about writing garbage to the floppy making it un-bootable.
Click to expand...

Yes, I clearly remember that the model 1 boot sequence had dramatic pitfalls for diskettes. Maybe I've been trusting my muscular memory too much :D
In my mind it was only when the EI was powered down with diskettes in the drives that there was a true danger, the drives then put the heads on the disks and they spin for less than one second ... freaky!

Anyway, my plan is to use an HxC device to re-create bootable disks, I'll retry when I have one.

Thanks for your support.
 
ldkraemer said:
If I remember correctly, I always powered up the Floppy Drives, then the EI, then the Model 1 with the BREAK KEY held Down. That got me
to the CASS? command where I tapped the ENTER key bout 3-4 times, followed by ? MEM
then the ENTER KEY. The available memory would be displayed.
Click to expand...

Probably not "Cass?" Not on a Model I. Just "MEMORY SIZE?"

"Cass?" came in with the Model III.

(I'm new here. I'm the guy who bought ChromeDome's old B.O.B. 6000HD. :) )
 
pski said:
Welcome! Nice to see an active 6K user! How's the machine running?
Click to expand...

Beautifully. ChromeDome was quite candid about the physical condition of the plastic casing, so I hope he won't mind if I quote Han Solo:

"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."

The only thing that gets me about it is that there's a bit of dot wiggle in the CRT. Some kind of AC interference is my guess, but I think almost everyone here ranks me on electronics expertise. (I've been lurking for months.) The HD is a third-party replacement with greater capacity. 20 instead of 15, I think? It's powered down right now.

My near-term project is to fix the piezo buzzer in my DT-1 and get those two talking to each other.

EDIT: I can't have a signature (maybe that's reserved for Senior Members?), but here's a summary of my gear. Several of these my dad bequeathed me; he's a thrift store stalker of the old school.

1 Model III upgraded to a 4.
1 Model 4D
3 Model 4Ps, one in almost museum condition

1 Model II, which is missing a fuse, and I'm scared to power it up
- CD said I'd be okay because it's a slo-blo fuse, but I'm a cowardly procrastinator
The 6000HD.

1 32K gray CoCo
1 "64K Color Computer", that sexy white beast that was only in one RSC
3 CoCo 3s, one with 512KB RAM upgrade (aftermarket, I think)
- an embarrassing amount of CoCo peripherals and stuff; I'm a 6809 fanboy

a DT-1
a Model 200 (nice machine, used it for an English Lit class in 2012)
a Model 600 (inferior power to weight ratio compared to the 200)
a PC-2

and some other stuff like:
Canon Cat
Sharp PC-1600
 
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