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IBM PS/2 Model 60-111 NEEDS HELP - WILL NOT POST

twolazy

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Been working on a pretty rare machine here, a model 60-111. I can't seem to find much on the internet for this exact machine, but most model 60 information is pretty much the same.

I am having problems making the machine post. The machine itself was received in a pretty sad state, so could not test it as it was. Cleaned everything up, checked every solder joint. Cleaned off any traces of corrosion etc. No matter what I do the machine will not post. I am a little out of my ballpark here, not having much experience with ps/2's.

I cleaned the cpu socket as best I could, ram is clean. Machine powers up, no post, no beeps. Already reseated the eproms, even replaced 1 that was somewhat iffy looking. Copied it on my programmer and burnt a new one. Still same symptoms... Deader then a doornail... Even tried ram I know was not compatible just to try to make it give me an error code/beep pattern. Still nothing...

Any ideas? Normally I pull out the isa diag card, but this machine is MCA...

Could it be a bad cpu or cpu socket? Only thing I can think of...
 
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barythrin

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Well you'd want to verify voltages from the power supply first and make sure the system has proper 5v and 12v to play with. Then yes you might look at the processor, ram, and roms. No bulging capacitors anywhere on the motherboard?
 

twolazy

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checked voltages, right on the money, 5v is 5.12v and 12v is 12.08v , so safe to assume psu works. I did this under the load of the original ESDI drive. Already tried swapping out ram, no beeping or post whatsoever. :(

Would the MCA ram card work , if no onboard ram is socketed? Tried both ways nonetheless...

The cpu was somewhat corroded in the socket when I received the machine, although no visible traces of it are left. A mouse decided it make a good home LOL. Hate to have to remove the 286 cpu socket, seeing how I have no replacement. And I do not have a 286 pin based cpu. So I have no way to test the mainboard with a different cpu. :(
 

mikey99

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Hmm, are you saying you measured the Power Supply voltages with just the load
of the ESDI drive ? I would measure the voltages with the PS attached to the motherboard
also to make sure it isn't being loaded down. I have a Model 60 I repaired a few months ago
it wouldn't even power up due to a shorted capacitor on the motherboard. I replaced the capacitor
and it works okay now.

Do you see anything on the screen at all when you power on ?

You should also try removing all adapter cards leaving just the motherboard and memory
and see if it powers on.

Post a few pictures of the motherboard showing the corrosion to get opinions here.
I have seen these motherboards showup on the auction site occasionally.
(actually there are several on there now). If you suspect the CPU you should try
swapping that with another one first.
 
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twolazy

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I'll take some pictures tomorrow, not sure on how well my cameras will do on closeups though... I so need a nice camera. LOL.

Anyways, I meant to say I tested the voltages with just the esdi and mainboard attached, no addon cards etc. Guess I could have worded that better in retrospect.

Too tired to really think atm, so time for bed. After taking pictures tomorrow, I'll do some more probing around the mainboard.
 

twolazy

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Sorry took so long for me to reply again, was extremely busy last nite, being it was my birthday and all... :)

Anyways, here are the requested pics. For the cpu socket photo, i mounted the camera to a jewelers lens I own. I feel it came out clear enough for the situation.
ps2 model 60 mobo.JPG
Pic 1 - whole mobo


ps2 model 60 eproms.JPG
Pic 2 - Eproms, notice one on far left is different. I had to replace the original, it had green corrosion, and when removed a pin fell off. I was able to clean it up, solder the pin on, and make a copy, but i would not trust it for long term usage on the system. As far I as I know, a 27256 IDC can be replaced with a 27C256, which is all I had handy. At least its the same brand and doesn't look too much out of place. :) Checksums and CRC match btw.


ps2 model 60 cpu socket.jpg
Pic 3 - the cpu socket. Notice how almost 1/2 the pins on the cpu socket aren't very shiny or easily visible. Thinking the problem lays here perhaps... Considering when I got the system, above the cpu is where the mouse made its home. It kinda used the space in-between as a bathroom. So before it was cleaned as well as possible, a bunch of its uhm "gunk" made it past the pins into the socket. The cpu took forever to get it off, and the socket, well it speaks for itself, hence the non visible pins...

Now if I am right, and its the socket, could I replace it with line row headers like used on sipps? Or am I stuck having to find the correct socket. Soldering on the cpu is not an option. Or is there a way to clean the internal pins somehow? I tried every method i know and then some, including a steam cleaner and syringe needles...

If this socket is non salvageable, it might not even be worth repairing. Who knows what other problems I may run into if I do repair the mainboard. In that scenario, it would most likely be best if I found a replacement but I have yet to see one. :( And even if I do, I would not want another model 60 mainboard. I would want a model 80 or the model 60 upgrade board, for multiple reasons, most being more ram, and 32 bit slots for a soundcard.

Any input be appreciated!
 
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mikerm

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Yeah, that socket looks terrible (turrible, just turrible!). Head over to Lowe's and grab a spray can of contact cleaner and spray that puppy clean (uses a straw).
 

billdeg

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If there is a short in a controller card or the mobo the system will not post. One of the things that IBM did that other manuf did not.
 

twolazy

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I might have a model 60 motherboard in my pile if you need a replacement.

Might need to obtain the motherboard from you. Just got done with some electrical cleaner. Socket is dead. 3 or 4 pins fell out cleaning it, so its officially dead. I guess I could try to dremel the old socket off , but what to replace it with? :(

Guess I can try looking through all my dead motherboards, maybe I have a dead 386 with a mathco socket i can steal. What would you want for the model 60 motherboard?
 

mikey99

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If the corrosion is that bad it might have damaged other components too.
Replacing the socket is several hours of work with no guarantee of success.

You should definitely go for the new MB.
 

twolazy

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I was thinking the same thing mikey. On the other hand, rest the motherboard is near mint, without any traces of corrosion left. So kinda a toss to be honest. The worst spot was the cpu socket itself. I might give it one more try, after thinking it over some. What worries me is there may be more corrosion where it is not visible. Like under the Glue/chipset chips.

I was thinking if I welded a soldering iron tip to a small copper heatsink base, using a 50watt iron with lots of flux, I may be able to pull off a socket in 1 piece. Kinda a long shot though. I hate to have to discard this board, but its looking like that is my only option, unless I want to spend countless hours on it with no guarantee of revival. I've fixed numerous mainboards in the past, but this one really has me for a loop. LOL. Never have I had to replace a cpu socket! Eprom sockets, caps and surface mount parts a few times but nothing ever like this...

Times like this i wish i owned a reflow station. :( I have a homemade hot air pencil, but doubt it work very well on this board. Being its from 1983-87, going to guess it contains leaded solder. :S


BTW, here is the idea I had for the iron... Think this could work?
solderingiron2.jpg
 
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twolazy

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dip socket row.png
Well I ordered a few dual row dip headers for this project. Was a whole 4 dollars shipped! :D

Idea is to cut off the socket and replace it with row headers. If the board does not start after this, then back to the drawing board. Perhaps if I have extra time this weekend I'll try making the soldering iron I pictured.
 

mikey99

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Is there any way to remove the plastic part of the socket so you can desolder/remove
the existing socket pins one at a time ?

If you get one of those plunger type solder suckers might work to clean the solder from each pin, one at a time.

For your idea about attaching a plate to the soldering iron, the iron probably will not be able to
heat that large mass hot enough. Even if it did you'd need to rely on it making good
enough contact with ALL the pins at once to melt the solder and be able to pull the socket out.
 

RWallmow

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View attachment 6552
Well I ordered a few dual row dip headers for this project. Was a whole 4 dollars shipped! :D

Idea is to cut off the socket and replace it with row headers. If the board does not start after this, then back to the drawing board. Perhaps if I have extra time this weekend I'll try making the soldering iron I pictured.
I was going to suggest using DIP headers, should work fine assuming the rest of the board is working.
 
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