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Look what I paid $170 shipping for

C

carlsson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
6,274
Location
Västerås, Sweden
trash80.jpg

Never before has Trash-80 been a such suitable nickname. :-( Well, since I was going to open it anyway, I hope the monitor can be relocated into place and that nothing has broken too badly.

It is definitely not Terry's fault. The computer was very well packaged with both thick bubble wrap and packing chips. He had also written THIS SIDE UP and drawn large arrows on the cardboard. Unfortunately, the Swedish post office people don't speak very good English and are unfamiliar with geometric shapes such as arrows, so it was delivered on its side. That alone could be fault enough if it has been shipped around like that. Also, the dislocated screen has signs of moist on the inside that I will need to investigate.

Oh well, even if it doesn't work it will be something to look at and discuss.. :-(
 
Tube's certainly necked, don't apply volts to it, because you'll possibly pop something else.

What a travesty!..... insurance????

You may be able to find a compatible black & white tv tube. it's likely tandy used a readily available part.

ps sorry been ultra-busy, will get another plug block packaged tonight, there's a big backlog at the ports apparently due to having to sniff everything.
 
Not only is it dislocated. There also is a lot of small glass sherds, probably from the tube. As you write, maybe one could find a replacement tube if it turns out this will be the only really damaged part. In the mean time, I will read the service manual how to open up the damn thing. I have removed eight or nine screws from the bottom, but it won't let go from the upper half, or vice versa.
 
Be carefull when you do figure out how to remove the top shell/case. The monitor is (was?) attached to the top part of the unit while the drives and MB are on the bottom. When you pull the top up and off there will be a lot of cabling that is *barely* going to be long enough to put the top of the case sideways next to the main unit unless you disconnect all the wires.

- John
 
My Heathkit H-89 looked about like that when it arrived. In my case, it was the seller's fault. Box wasn't strong enough for all the concentrated weight and he went pretty light on the bubble wrap. I got a full refund. Most of the H-89 is beyond repair. I know, I tried. I had the fuse blow up in my face, it was cracked all the way thru and I hadn't noticed. The yoke winding were cut in about 3 places, useless. I'll save the floppy drive, keyboard, and the boards. I am getting pretty good at stealing caps from one board to put on another one. All the main boards were "L" shaped, as the crt raised havoc bouncing around inside. I almost purchased another one today but the whole experience soured me on the Heathkit line. The plastic or fiber glass or whatever it is is brittle. I had all four crt mounting posts broken away and all the cage hardware was broken as well. Nice large crack in the top case, a total mess.
 
I know from the couple of PETs that I've sold to people how battered the boxes become, and sometimes the computer arrives half smashed. That is still within Europe. The only proper way to ship a big beast like this appears to be double boxing, although it makes a very large and complex package.
 
Erik shipped a full tower from California to me here in Illinois VIA DHL. (Roughly two thousand miles) I must admit I was impressed. The box looked like it was brand new and had no scuffs or marks anywhere. The tower had damage but I think that was more age and brittle plastics. DHL is the only one to ever get something to me unharmed. When I ordered my Compaq, FedEX was VERY careful with it. I think because it had a very large Compaq logo on the box in a few places making it obvious what was inside. Maybe shippers would be more careful if it had a manufacturer logo on the box?
 
Carlsson,

Sorry it didn't arrive intact, but it was insured, so you shouldn't be out-of-pocket. I'll dig up the paperwork for the claim.

I've been using DHL almost exclusively for about a year now for domestic, but recently had a shipment munged by them too. Ask Andrew...

--T
 
carlsson said:
Not only is it dislocated. There also is a lot of small glass sherds, probably from the tube. As you write, maybe one could find a replacement tube if it turns out this will be the only really damaged part. In the mean time, I will read the service manual how to open up the damn thing. I have removed eight or nine screws from the bottom, but it won't let go from the upper half, or vice versa.
Click to expand...

Ok, there is one screw on the back of the case, in the middle, at the top, that has to be removed as well. Then you put your hands half way down the case sides and lift up and to the left (looking at it from the front) and then lay the case top on its left had side.

The CRT was a fairly common one and I have seen people replace it with either green or amber equivalents as well.

From the looks of it, you are going to need a new case top as well since the mounting posts for the CRT have to have been snapped right off the inner case facing.

I'm know your pain, Carlsson.
 
Vlad said:
Maybe shippers would be more careful if it had a manufacturer logo on the box?
Click to expand...

I just wonder how many shippers would still associate a big TANDY logo with computerstuff :)

But its annoying, I imagine the box is handled with care by 10 people who care, and then the eleventh has a bad day.
 
Thanks, all. I'm looking forward to what can be salvaged.

Druid: I removed that top screw also, but I didn't try the lift to the left manouver. I'll see later. Perhaps it is somehow possible to use an external screen, if the video signal from the computer board is almost compatible to a TV tube?
 
Aha, there were two more screws in the bottom that were hidden deeper inside. I'll remove those too, and carefully slide the top off.

trash80-2.jpg


So, it must have come loose in transport, and then the back of the tube broke.
 
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carlsson said:
Druid: I removed that top screw also, but I didn't try the lift to the left manouver. I'll see later. Perhaps it is somehow possible to use an external screen, if the video signal from the computer board is almost compatible to a TV tube?
Click to expand...

Well, it's been some time since I saw the inside of a Model III. Like all computers, it's a pain in the ass to work on.

Carlsson, the first thing I'd do is get the number off the CRT and see about cross referencing it to something, in the colour you'd prefer, that is still available.

There never were a lot of CRT manufacturers in the world, it was mostly 2 or 3 supplying tubes for everyone else.

I have a client in British Columbia, Canada that had the same problem with a shipped unit and he managed to pull a CRT out of an old amber composite monitor and drop it in and it worked.

Are those the mounting posts in the foreground of the picture? If they aren't shattered, you should be able to epoxy them back on to the case top and then the CRT would be the only concern.

Failing that, you might be able to get a basic 16K, no drive unit on e-bay fairly cheaply and just swap case tops after cutting out the drive blanking panels.
 
When I ship a machine I take a few precautions:

  • If a part is not screwed down, it gets secured somehow. This happens a bit on PCjrs because the cards are not screwed to the case via a bracket, and the top of the machine is only held on by friction. If the part has to be removed and wrapped separately, so be it.
  • Large voids inside of a machine get filled with paper, just in case something does want to break loose. Having the voids filled reduces the chances of that happening, and protects against further damage if it does.
  • Anything with a CRT in it is a risk, because often the CRT mounts break. I've had this happen to one 5153 monitor that was shipped to me. I've never had it happen on the CRTs that I've shipped. If you are going to ship a CRT, ship it face down and ship it tight! Stuff the box with material so tightly that nothing can move.

Movement is the killer. A box in transit is going to be subjected to movement, both intentional and non-intentional. If you can limit the movement inside of the box, then you can prevent things from breaking loose and causing further damage. In the case of a CRT, once the tube starts to move independently of the rest of the housing, you are hosed.

In this particular case it is hard to know what to do. I don't have the nerve to open a monitor housing to secure it properly; something about the electrical wallop a CRT can pack. But it was almost predictable that an old machine going overseas not in its original shipping packaging was going to be damaged. I haven't got the courage to even try to ship something like that that far.
 
I use the patented "wrap it in 6+ inches of bubble wrap, put in a box twice the size of the item and suround it with foam" method of shipping things. I've yet to have a casualty, granted the shipping cost goes up a little bit, but I don't have to worry about the head ache of a damage claim. The laptop I sold on ebay a few months ago, the guy wrote me and said that they could have air-dropped the package to his driveway and the thing wouldnt have been damaged ;) And obviously what mbbrutman said, movement = bad.
 
The tube is a RCA, markings LR27591 E37984, 12VCLP4 EIA1240. The mounting posts are somewhat badly damaged but perhaps they could be restored somewhat to fasten another tube.

So, tubes and casings from other TRS-80 models should fit as well? Dongfeng had found a cheap Model 16B on eBay UK (see above), but I suppose shipping it over here might result in one more broken tube. On the other hand, if the display flickers and the computer smells burned, the tube might be bad as well.

Here in Sweden we have a computer called ABC-80, which was roughly modelled after the TRS-80 Model 1. It has a separate B&W monitor, and I was thinking maybe it is compable enough so if I find one cheap (i.e. locally), I could use the tube or perhaps wire the TRS video output to an external display. It would certainly not look authentic, but if it works...
 
I forgot to express my condolences in my previous post.

However, I'm sure you are aware that you need to be very very careful. Instead of trying to find and replace the tube yourself you might want to go to a small TV repair shop. (Do these even exist anymore?) They will know where to find tubes and parts, and how to correctly connect it. A replacement tube might not be an exact replacement for what you had, so a knowledgeable TV tech would be an asset.
 
I believe that the 12VCLP4 number is the one you are looking for. The P4 is the phosphur type (in this case, white). Other numbers following the P would indicate different colours.

If I get a chance today, I will open up one of my Model I displays and see if it is the same. It should be close as the display is just a gutted RCA 12 inch black and white TV.

I believe they carried on with the same type of CRTs until the late Model IIIs (which were green) and the Model IVs.
 
carlsson said:
The tube is a RCA, markings LR27591 E37984, 12VCLP4 EIA1240. The mounting posts are somewhat badly damaged but perhaps they could be restored somewhat to fasten another tube.

So, tubes and casings from other TRS-80 models should fit as well? Dongfeng had found a cheap Model 16B on eBay UK (see above), but I suppose shipping it over here might result in one more broken tube. On the other hand, if the display flickers and the computer smells burned, the tube might be bad as well.

Here in Sweden we have a computer called ABC-80, which was roughly modelled after the TRS-80 Model 1. It has a separate B&W monitor, and I was thinking maybe it is compable enough so if I find one cheap (i.e. locally), I could use the tube or perhaps wire the TRS video output to an external display. It would certainly not look authentic, but if it works...
Click to expand...


The Model 16B has, IIRC, a 14" display, and the 4P is a 9", so neither of those models will interchange with the 12" tube in the M-III. At any rate, you wouldn't want to ship a 16B very far either, it weighs about 70lbs. I'm pretty sure the Model I tube would work. I have one here, but it belongs to Druid, he's just waiting for me to ship it. (BTW, D, I finally dug down deep enough in the storage to find it, I'll send it along soon's I get time). I have a couple of other 12" composite monitors around here, I'll see what they look like (of course, there's the shipping thing again). I'll pull the tube and have it packaged by someplace that does the foam-in-place thing to protect it from shipping damage. The shipment was insured for $200.00US, so the claim payoff should cover any additional costs (not sure if they'll let ya keep the busted-up pieces or not, tho).

If nothing else, I think I can lay my hands on a bona-fide Model III tube from ComputerHell. I believe there's a new-in-box spare down there (if I can ever get access to it again).

--T
 
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