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SB 16 on XT

I suppose the SB16 could work in an XT as long as you are using it to playback 8-bit sound, but 16-bit playback would not work.

The CD Interface on the Pros and many 16s is the Panasonic interface. This interface is notable in that it does not use any extra IRQ or DMA channels. Maybe the driver requires a 286, otherwise it should work with a Panasonic drive in an XT.
 
Great Hierophant said:
I suppose the SB16 could work in an XT as long as you are using it to playback 8-bit sound, but 16-bit playback would not work.

The CD Interface on the Pros and many 16s is the Panasonic interface. This interface is notable in that it does not use any extra IRQ or DMA channels. Maybe the driver requires a 286, otherwise it should work with a Panasonic drive in an XT.
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16-bit sound is sure working for me, try it... the DIAGNOSE program won't work, it hangs, but play back a 16-bit audio sample, it does work..

Ehh, let me explain how this works..

The "bit" size for audio has nothing to do what BUS it's on... It is the sound resolution.. The data can sure be transfered to the sound card if the 8-bit bus is fast enough, and in this case, it is...
 
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Why does an SB16 need the 16-bit bus anyways, other than for the extra IRQ and DMA channels? It does have pins for the high 8-bits of the data bus. Is it for stereo playback of 16-bit samples or full duplex operation?
 
I honestly don't know, I think it's for the Panasonic interface...

It does play in Stereo, it does play in 8-bit and 16-bit on the XT interface, but I don't know about full duplex...
 
evildragon said:
Just wondering, has anyone tried using a SoundBlaster 16 on an XT's 8-bit bus? I was thinking about putting my SB16 (or Vibra), into my Model 25...
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Won't work, sorry.

There is a grand total of two cards I know of that do 16-bit 44.1KHz sound with an 8-bit ISA interface: One is the last Pro Audio Spectrum card with an 8-bit ISA interface (exact name escapes me) and the other is a Logitech card (clone of the Pro Audio).
 
evildragon said:
I couldn't get any MOD player to work, even on a NEV V30, they all seem to want 286's...
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You can use mine; it doesn't sound all that great (8KHz audio, mono only), but it works on a 4.77MHz 8088. Tested with an SBPRO. Email me if you want it.

Have you tried Galaxy? Look for "glx212.zip" on the web. It trades some accuracy for crazy speed (your V30 could do 22kHz mono).
 
evildragon said:
I honestly don't know, I think it's for the Panasonic interface...

It does play in Stereo, it does play in 8-bit and 16-bit on the XT interface, but I don't know about full duplex...
Click to expand...

I am mildly close to calling shenanigans on this, since I remember putting a SB16 (ASP, no less) into my XT and couldn't get anything working at all. The packaging (I still have the original box) also says 286 and later. Tell me: What DMA/IRQ/port settings is your set at, and what does your BLASTER string look like?
 
Trixter said:
I am mildly close to calling shenanigans on this, since I remember putting a SB16 (ASP, no less) into my XT and couldn't get anything working at all. The packaging (I still have the original box) also says 286 and later. Tell me: What DMA/IRQ/port settings is your set at, and what does your BLASTER string look like?
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I used the SBBASIC.EXE from Creative Labs.. If your in florida, come on over to hear and see it yourself.. it's an 8086 (with a V30 installed) machine though, model 25...

Here's the string I used...

SET SOUND=C:\SB16
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H1 P330 T6
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E

The above works, but I don't think the MPU-401 is working, it doesn't detect it.. Also, the H1 is required, anything else and the card just screws up big time, even crashing the computer with PARITY CHECK and stuff..

Also, on my 286, the sound card also worked in IT'S 8-bit slot, so do try that yourself if you can't get your XT to run it... Mine probably did it because of the V30, I don't know.. but if you don't believe me, have me do whatever you want to prove it's working...
 
don't forget the CT model I mentioned that did work.. That might also help.. SoundBlaster 16 Value, CT 2770....

Diagnose will not work, it will FIND the card, but when it comes time to play something, it just freezes where it normally would give you a selection..

HOWEVER: On a 286, in an 8-bit slot, DIAGNOSE does infact work, and will prove to play 16-bit samples...

I recorded a video of it playing, but all I did was MIDI sounds, as I don't really have any game nor a way to video tape proof.. I'll do what you want though, to prove it.. Because I'm mad serious about this..

EDIT: Here's some still photos.. I'm making a backup of this computers HD, and will compress it to a .zip, so you can tinker with it and see what was done to it... (it will be a direct backup, no modifications at all)

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/xt16/1.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/xt16/2.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/xt16/3.jpg
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/xt16/4.jpg

EDIT: Here's the backup.. Get the driver from my backup, as it's already configured..

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/7-30-07.rar
 
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Hey, that's a Model 25, cool :) I played with one tonight; had to bootstrap the thing using only the internal hard drive because the floppy is toast. Do you know if I can replace the floppy drive with any standard one, or is it goofy in some way that will screw me?
 
Trixter said:
Hey, that's a Model 25, cool :) I played with one tonight; had to bootstrap the thing using only the internal hard drive because the floppy is toast. Do you know if I can replace the floppy drive with any standard one, or is it goofy in some way that will screw me?
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The Floppy Drive in the Model 25 and 30 (both 8086 and 286 versions) is non-standard. It uses one cable to get the voltage from the motherboard to the drive, while getting data and control instructions from the same cable. I've never poked around in a Model 25 before though, but most likely it's the same deal as the 30.
 
Yep, it's goofy alright.. Actually the drive I'm using is the one IBMMuseum sold me.. 1.44MB comes in handy when you need to transfer a large driver to the computer ;) (and try and install from original DOS disks)

I'm gonna upload that video, I'm right now editing out the um, me walking and setting the camera up (i didn't know it was recording already!)

EDIT: Here's the video.. You will notice mine has a VGA BIOS, as I have installed a (16-bit) VGA card in it also...

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/m25sb16.mov
(Quicktime 7 or VLC required.. I use a Mac as I do video editing, sorry.. My WMV encoder cuts short all the time, always only encoding half the video)

You might notice the music I play before the game runs, it's from CastleVania Bloodlines, the credits.. I ported the OPN2 music (from Genesis), to the OPL3 of the SB16... I also did cut it short.. In the game, I didn't expect Ctrl+alt+delete to freeze it, I thought it would reboot it.. apparently not..

You can sorta see the reason I originally planned NOT to show the video.. It doesn't really prove what sound card is running.. I honestly don't know "how" to prove it as DIAGNOSE don't run...
 
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evildragon said:
You can sorta see the reason I originally planned NOT to show the video.. It doesn't really prove what sound card is running.. I honestly don't know "how" to prove it as DIAGNOSE don't run...
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Run something that uses SB16's 16-bit output, of course. What happens if you try to play a 16-bit .wav or .voc using the included utilities?

8088 Corruption *should* support SB16 (ie. use the card, display the init string, etc.) but I've never tried it.

Do you have a web page detailing all of your Model 25 mods? I have a spare and some of your mods sound really neat. I'd be curious as to how you got the VGA working through the built-in monitor, for example.
 
I could never get 8088 corruption to work, as my HD is on it's last leg, and can't transfer as fast as required..

I'll look for a 16-bit sample to play.. I'll need to find a utility to play them (the diagnose's utility's audio is built into the executable, and the basic driver comes with nothing to play with)...

this is the VGA mod in my collection: http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=7434

I did the stupid route though, tie R, G, B into one channel, instead of telling the video card I had a mono monitor.. I did this route as my VGA cards mono mode don't work well when on an 8-bit bus... (it still loads in color, but with the palette all corrupted)...

EDIT:
I think I know just how to prove this.. Even though Diagnose locks up where it should test the audio, it does ID the card, and does validate ALL the address ranges...

Notice the DSP version, it DID communicate with the card sucessfully... Also, the fact that the mixer, with the treble and bass, should also be proof... (i don't think an 8-bit card had those features)

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/sb16diag.jpg

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/sb16mixer.jpg
 
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evildragon said:
I could never get 8088 corruption to work, as my HD is on it's last leg, and can't transfer as fast as required..
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But it should play SOMETHING -- it buffers to system RAM, so even if your hd is slow it should work for at least a few seconds (then buffer for a few seconds, lather-rinse-repeat).

Thanks for the SB16 info, now I have to give it a shot myself :)
 
Trixter said:
But it should play SOMETHING -- it buffers to system RAM, so even if your hd is slow it should work for at least a few seconds (then buffer for a few seconds, lather-rinse-repeat).

Thanks for the SB16 info, now I have to give it a shot myself :)
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it fails to load anything.. it says it's starting, and next thing I know, it's back at a DOS prompt, and the hole time the HD sounds like it's "resetting" looking for track 0...

If I use my zip drive, I CAN run it.. it just skips really bad...

i'll record it in a few minutes (or hours, depends if i can find the stupid cameras Hi8 tape)

EDIT: 8088flex, the version I have, doesn't ID the card, it just plays after saying the video is 30fps with 22KHz audio sampling rate (i don't know the exact Hz rating it listed)

I have tried inside and out, to find a DOS wave player, and everything is dead links, or something needing a 386...

I have no other choice, but to tell you to get an SB16, stick it in a 286's 8-bit slot, and run DIAGNOSE, and listen to the full 16-bit stereo sound...
 
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evildragon said:
it fails to load anything.. it says it's starting, and next thing I know, it's back at a DOS prompt, and the hole time the HD sounds like it's "resetting" looking for track 0...
Click to expand...

Wait a damn second -- the hard drive goes crazy? Dude:

SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H1 P330 T6
Click to expand...

Well there's your problem :) IRQ 5 is also your hard drive controller. Set the SB16 to I7 both on the card and in your BLASTER string and then maybe DIAGNOSE will start working, as might 8088flex. Just don't load your zip drive driver or leave the zip drive connected (as I7 is your parallel port).

My SBPro is set to IRQ 2, which is truly unused in an XT. In an AT and later, it bridges to IRQ 9 so you can't do that, but it's valid in an XT. Does your SB16 allow a hard jumper to IRQ 2?

If I use my zip drive, I CAN run it.. it just skips really bad...
Click to expand...

I'm amazed it runs at all, over a parallel port. Don't do that :) This is also proof that your SB16 IRQ is conflicting with your hard drive IRQ, if the zip playback "works".

I have tried inside and out, to find a DOS wave player, and everything is dead links, or something needing a 386...
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The VOCPLAY routines will play 16-bit sound; once you get DIAGNOSE working, convert a 44.1KHz 16-bit .wav to .voc and give it a try.
 
That's a big *10-4* on IRQ7. Back in my Thunderboard days, I was usually forced to use 7. People talk about the "golden days of DOS"! Bah, all this stuff reminds me of all the headaches that people don't remember. Like trying to optimize lower 640K for games. You can spend days trying different combos of LOADHIGH, etc.
 
I'll give IRQ7 a try... I do have IRQ2 for cascading..

(and i don't have VOCPLAY.. check my backup from the previous page, that's all I have to work with)

wait a minute, I can't use 7 either, and according to this IRQ5 is for LPT2..

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/33460028.jpg

(EDIT: Duh! I might have VOCPLAY on one of my older 486 I have in the attic.. It had an AZTEC Sound Watching Galaxy 16 sound card (that's a mouthfull!), and I remember .VOC files on it... I'll get one of those)..
 
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