Telnet Access For VCF

[frozenfire75i]

I have been thinking the last few days.... This is a vintage computer forum with 100's of vintage computer folks, but there is one major missing thing.

We must use are newer/non-vintage system's to get on the forum talk with each orther ect.

I think, we all should be able to use are vintage computers to access this wonderful network of us all on an old time Dial-up-BBS service and/or telnet.

I think one of us, or maybe all of us should setup a real Dial-Up-BBS and/or telnet. I am sure with all our brains and computer junk ;-) out there we could set one up! Erik you run this fine set-up maybe you could lead?

 

[Chuck(G)]

Given that a lot of folks have mobile/cell phone service only, how is a POTS modem supposed to work?

A large dial-in BBS is a major capital outlay with recurring monthly costs. I wouldn't want to saddle anyone with that.

Instead, how about a telnet server? The experience is similar and much vintage gear knows telnet.

 

[frozenfire75i]

Well yes something along that line.... Telnet then maybe limted few calls at once dial-up BBS for those who have normal phones ect... Something so we all can use are vintage systems to access this.

Given that a lot of folks have mobile/cell phone service only, how is a POTS modem supposed to work?

A large dial-in BBS is a major capital outlay with recurring monthly costs. I wouldn't want to saddle anyone with that.

Instead, how about a telnet server? The experience is similar and much vintage gear knows telnet.

 

[Unknown_K]

I liked BBS system back in the day becuse nothing better was out, but I don't realy want to go back to long distance calls and tieing up the phone line.

Why not just do an IRC channel, even XTs can get into those these days (or old Mac, Amiga, etc).

 

[chuckcmagee]

Yes, it is always strange to me how we remember the good parts and forget the bad parts. Thinking back on my BBS days, trying to remember the commands from one type of software to the next was always a pain. You would have to keep listing the menus and hope it didn't scroll off the screen too fast.

 

[Chuck(G)]

Yes, it is always strange to me how we remember the good parts and forget the bad parts. Thinking back on my BBS days, trying to remember the commands from one type of software to the next was always a pain. You would have to keep listing the menus and hope it didn't scroll off the screen too fast.

To recreate a complete experience, I suppose that we'd have to slow down IRC or telnet to 300 baud speeds or provide a client-side package that would throttle things down to 110 and provide teletype noise. Oh, and line noise garbage characters...

I think I still have a hard disk around somewhere with my BBS just before I pulled the plug around 1996 or so. Windows NT 4.0 running Auntie multi-user on USR Courier modems.

It's nice now not having to worry about the right flavor of download protocol too--Zmodem, Xmodem, Kermit, Ymodem (Xmodem 1K), Ymodem-batch, etc...

Or you could just call me and tell me what files you need and I could write them to a reel of 1/2" 556 bpi 7 track tape and put it on the next flight to your area.

 

[chuckcmagee]

Hey, I still think of getting a ASR33 into my mobile home trailer somehow. I still love the way it would sit there with the print cylinder bobbing up and down. Talk about a pain!! Trying to keep all those mech parts working these days. I have 2 Silent 700 terminals. I can't get either one of them to work properly because I can't find any dialup that really supports 300 baud. Most of them detect the 300 baud and promptly disconnect! Sigh.

 

[Ole Juul]

Yes, it is always strange to me how we remember the good parts and forget the bad parts. Thinking back on my BBS days, trying to remember the commands from one type of software to the next was always a pain. You would have to keep listing the menus and hope it didn't scroll off the screen too fast.

Same here, especially the scrolling off the screen. Actually come to think of it that is probably the reason I sarted running MON.COM on all my boxes. Thats a TSR (in 1K) that lets me remember screens and scroll through them. Without that I was a nervous wreck.

One thing though, in those days the info was much more concentrated. I can't read as fast as a 2400 can throw text at me anyway. Another thing that I really miss is FIDO. Not all the garbage and idiots. Waiting till the next day for replies also gave a goodly amount of time to regret a bad post!

Still, having a seperate desktop with Google and being able to look up a LOT of stuff almost as fast as if it was on my own drive, is pretty cool.

 

[Lawrence Woodman]

I agree it would be great to use the old machines to chat and swap ideas. I've been thinking about it for a while. The problem that I often have with my old machines is knowing what to do with them. Playing games is fun, but I'm not that much of a game guy. I program them, but then this often lacks purpose. I guess that's why I started my blog so that at least I could put my retro programming efforts to some good use.

If I could use my old machines to communicate with like minded people that would be great.

I think it would have to be over telnet, as at I don't think people would bother otherwise, at least not many. Also it would be good to develop a new hybrid system similar to a bbs of old, but with features that we have learnt since that time.

We could even have a form of browsing especially adapted to old technology.

Hmm, I'm rambling.

Anyway. There is one thing I'm sure of; the slow speed of the connection just added to the anticipation and excitement:

Logging in to a new bbs, not knowing what you were going to get. The page slowly filling, character by character. And Yes! you like the look of the BBS, success!

Great Days!

 

[Sharkonwheels]

I don't miss modems one single bit.
Still got quite a few of my old USR Courier V.32, HST, V.Everything, and I-modem.
Got my Telebit Trailblazers, worldblazers, Tx000 (T2000, T3000, etc..), and the last modem I ever bought, and modemblaster 56k.

They are in the garage in a "modem box" plastic lid-covered walmart tub.

And THAT is EXACTLY where they are STAYING!



I do remember my 16.8k HST doing 1MB in 15 minutes.
Now we do 15MB in 1 minute. Or more!

Remind me why I want to go back?


T

 

[Ole Juul]

> "Remind me why I want to go back?"

Well there's two parts to this story. One is the modem, which were lots of fun but, I agree we can do it in other ways which are much faster.

The other part of the story is that we now have so much GARBAGE to download which is absolutely meaningless. We need to have high speed just to be able to accept the stuff we don't want. OK, so our isos are 1GB and that's not practical with slow speed. But, much of the other stuff is just advertising and html fluff that doesn't actually carry any CONTENT.

So, to my mind, it's not just about going back to a slow speed. It's also about going back to less garbage.

 

[frozenfire75i]

I agree with this guy....

Ok so using the old modems on the Dial-UP BBS, maybe not the best idel, however I have heard you all speek of slowing down telnet so that our vintage systems can connect?

Thats what I am after and hope to get one day an hybrid of a new system mixed with BBS/telnet Stlye.. I think it would be a cool thing to extend this froum on to telnet and allow us all to use are vintage systems!

I agree it would be great to use the old machines to chat and swap ideas. I've been thinking about it for a while. The problem that I often have with my old machines is knowing what to do with them. Playing games is fun, but I'm not that much of a game guy. I program them, but then this often lacks purpose. I guess that's why I started my blog so that at least I could put my retro programming efforts to some good use.

If I could use my old machines to communicate with like minded people that would be great.

I think it would have to be over telnet, as at I don't think people would bother otherwise, at least not many. Also it would be good to develop a new hybrid system similar to a bbs of old, but with features that we have learnt since that time.

We could even have a form of browsing especially adapted to old technology.

Hmm, I'm rambling.

Anyway. There is one thing I'm sure of; the slow speed of the connection just added to the anticipation and excitement:

Logging in to a new bbs, not knowing what you were going to get. The page slowly filling, character by character. And Yes! you like the look of the BBS, success!

Great Days!

 

[Trixter]

A large dial-in BBS is a major capital outlay with recurring monthly costs. I wouldn't want to saddle anyone with that.

My phone server through my cable provider is $24.99 a month, all calls to USA and Canada included. I could run a BBS and it couldn't cost me an additional dime.

The problem is, most people don't have modems any more. Telnet BBSes seem more practical.

The BIGGEST problem is that vintage computer people are so scattered that it doesn't make sense to have a million little places to check each day. I am on the cctalk list, this forum, and (when I start my PCjr programming project) Mike Brutman's PCjr forums. That's it. I don't have time to check a metric ton of other sites. I don't even go to VOGONs or the DOSBox forums any more -- no time.

 

[mbbrutman]

I fully agree with the sentiment expressed in the thread. Which is why I've been writing a telnet BBS from scratch that will run on truly vintage hardware. (A PCjr at that ...) Some of you have seen the prototype in the past few weeks. I need to do a round of performance tuning and then add message boards, but it's almost there.

A true telnet BBS has the advantage that nobody has to get a modem out and dial anything. And I have designed this BBS to use TCP/IP from the ground up so that I can support multiple sessions, which is something you can't do on older modem based BBSs using a 'proxy' machine to get on the Internet.

You should also be able to connect to it using vintage hardware. NCSA telnet is excellent, and will run on 8088 class sytems.

IRC is a good second option. Check out the IRC clients that Mike Chambers and I have written - they work on modern servers. Mike's has a few more usability features than mine, but it doesn't do DNS and previous versions have been slow. Mine doesn't recognize mIRC extensions for color and such but it is wicked fast even on the slowest hardware.

Lastly, when I call for testing help on the telnet BBS, help me out .. telnet in a few times to exercise it. I'm grateful for the help that I get, but I feel like a pest nagging for more help.

My IRC client for old DOS machines: http://www.brutman.com/Dos_Networking/IRCjr.html

Lastly, I'm kind of with Trixter on this. I don't want a telnet BBS to fragment things further. There are some things you can do with a web based forum that a telnet BBS will not do well. Editing posts is a big example .. I don't know how many of you remember line editing, but it's not fun. The editing capabilities present in browsers is infinitely better than what any telnet BBS can do, especially if ANSI escape codes are not used. With ANSI escape codes things are more usable, but far slower.


Mike

 

[Chuck(G)]

My phone server through my cable provider is $24.99 a month, all calls to USA and Canada included. I could run a BBS and it couldn't cost me an additional dime.

How many lines does that get you--only one? I was thinking about a a real BBS with at least half-a-dozen incoming lines.

How well does a 56K modem work over that cable-supplied line?

 

[Trixter]

How many lines does that get you--only one? I was thinking about a a real BBS with at least half-a-dozen incoming lines.

Sorry, I misunderstood you. Yes, my service is only one line.

How well does a 56K modem work over that cable-supplied line?

It depends on the service. It either works flawlessly, or not at all. You can check before ordering such a service by asking them if their service is compatible with "fax machines".

 

[supertzar]

I think we should look at something that supplements what we have now. IRC is a good example, for real-time chat within the community, and should be able to run on just about anything from what I am hearing. I don't really see a point to regress to a text-based BBS because it could further fragment the community as well as never provide the capabilities this web forum provides.

 

[chuckcmagee]

We already tried IRC. Too many timezones! This "post a question and wait for someone to get up and answer it" works much better. Like right now, the people in the UK, Norway, etc. are sound asleep.

 

[frozenfire75i]

Well, I don't wish to fragment things eathier... I was just merely thinking of of an extenstion of this fourm. like someone could post on the web part and it would apper on both BBS and web or post on the bbs and it post on the web also.

But who knows maybe it's a bad ideal after all, to network our vintage systems and enjoy them even more!

Lastly, I'm kind of with Trixter on this. I don't want a telnet BBS to fragment things further. There are some things you can do with a web based forum that a telnet BBS will not do well. Editing posts is a big example .. I don't know how many of you remember line editing, but it's not fun. The editing capabilities present in browsers is infinitely better than what any telnet BBS can do, especially if ANSI escape codes are not used. With ANSI escape codes things are more usable, but far slower.


Mike

 

[MikeS]

Well, I don't wish to fragment things eathier... I was just merely thinking of of an extenstion of this fourm. like someone could post on the web part and it would apper on both BBS and web or post on the bbs and it post on the web also.

But who knows maybe it's a bad ideal after all, to network our vintage systems and enjoy them even more!

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Well, it depends on your vintage systems; for example there are certainly BBSs, running on C64s, that you can log into with your C64 through an internet-connected proxy or directly using a phone modem, and I believe there are similar systems for Atari, Apple &c.

m