• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Floppy Trick??

W

wmmullaney

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
589
Location
Columbia, SC USA area
Hi guys, When I acquired my apple IIe, it came with a ton of backup disks. All of them were single sided, but the owner chopped a notch in the side with scissors. Now they are working double sided disks, is this a know working hack for floppies? Or will I loose my data soon?
 
If the floppy disk itself is rated as double sided (DS), it is mostly safe to use both sides. However what you get is a "flippy", i.e. you have to flip the disk over to use the back side. Some people warn that by doing this, dirt particles caught in the wooly filter on the inside of the plastic jacket may come loose, scratching the surface as the disk will rotate backwards.

Many computers instead came with double sided floppy drives, so you could use both sides without the need to flip the disk over. Us owners of Commodore, Apple and Atari (among others) however needed to flip disks to use the maximum capacity. Later drives for those systems may also become double sided.

The notch is actually for write enable. If you tape it over, the drive should not be able to write to the disk, while you can still read what is stored. In some cases though, this notch may be overridden by a modified disk drive.

Lastly, you may have observed a small circular hole on the disk surface itself. It is called an index hole and is used by certain systems to sync the floppy disk. I don't know about the Apple, but I know the Commodore doesn't bother about the index hole, which is why flipping a disk actually works. On a single sided system which relies on the index hole, you would need to cut open a hole in the jacket near the hub ring to let the drive mechanism see the index hole even after the disk is flipped over.
 
Yep. If the disk itself is only rated as single sided (SS), it means the batch was not approved for double sided storage. It may work anyway, but a greater chance to lose or corrupt data by using the back side. I've had a few such disks myself and while both sides theoretically worked, after a few years I got a bit too many read errors to be happy about it so I copied what's left to a fresh floppy.
 
Whenever I hear the backwards-spinning-dirt-on-the-disk theory, I wonder if it's an urban legend started by the disk manufacturers to double their sales. I've known quite a few people who did the disk notcher thing for many years, but I've never seen a problem from doing so in the wild. There are also made flippy disks that come that way from the factory (usually with a second index hole). Much of the software in my collection also were distributed on flippys with say, a C= 64 game on one side and the same game for the Atari on the flip side.

OP, there were also special punches made for notching the disks, which make the task easier. Try searching e*ay for 'Disk Notcher' or similar, they come up rather frequently for just a couple of buck$.

Of course, all the standard disclaimers apply, I'm not recommending the practice, just sharing anecdotal information. YMMV

--T
 
Terry Yager said:
There are also made flippy disks that come that way from the factory (usually with a second index hole). Much of the software in my collection also were distributed on flippys with say, a C= 64 game on one side and the same game for the Atari on the flip side.

--T
Click to expand...
This reminds me of a disk Trixter wrote about in his blog. It was formated as BOTH a C64 disk and a IBM PC Disk at the same side, leaving the C64 Data in sectors marked "bad" in the disk header. I would call that neat.
 
Quite a few of the disks I regularly used for my software development and backups were used as flippies. I never had any problems - until I tried to read them with my new CatWeasel. Obviously side B could not be read.

However, with the latest release for said interface, there are instructions for modifying a floppy drive to enable side B to be accessed, by replacing the LED and photo-diode arrangement with a reed switch and using a magnet glued to the motor flywheel to trigger it. I'm not convinced the timing will be accurate enough for some applications though. I have thought of an alternative method but have yet to test my theory for this :)

I'll certainly post here when my method is tried and tested, assuming it works of course.



BG
 
Are there ready-made devices for doing this? I had thought of that. I'll have a look on Fleabay if there are. There are plenty of Commodore 64 gadgets available (new stuff still being made as well!) but these tend to be US-based with associated shipping costs, but I'm sure there will be something here in England :)



Cheers
BG
 
Use another floppy as a template to mark the spot, then (very carefully, so's not to scratch the media) use any ol' paper punch. Flip the disk, lather, rinse, repeat. Takes a little longer, but it works...

--T
 
I'll give it a go on a few new or non-critical disks first :)



BTW it seems I'm not the only one who never sleeps lol - must be late where you are?

BG
 
Flippys....

Flippys....

Heck, I remember doing this in college (80's) with my Osborne 1. Disks work fine, even today. I used a regular paper hole punch - the single hole variety that looks like a little pair of pliers.

-John
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top