Problems with Microsoft Adventure booter

[per]

Sorry to drag this slightly off topic.

I've known demonlord as a good friend for over a decade.
He's extremely passionate about booter games and he's careful about making sure that the stuff he cracks and releases work properly. Because modifications have to be made to crack the game anyway, adding an invisible message like that, while grandstanding a bit, shouldn't have any impact on gameplay.

I'm not complaining over that, Demonlord has done a great job archiving booter games from copyprotected floppies. However, what I am complaining about is just the hidden message.

Some other of the images does not have any hidden messages, so it is only a coupple that annoys me.

 

[Fallo]

Yes, I have both an EGA card and a CGA card. I even have a luggable with an MDA clone card. However, I don't have any monitors to connect to them..

The EGA(?) has composite out though..

CGA would have the composite out.

Anyway, Adventure is a text-mode game, so how would using a different video card help anything?

 

[patscc]

Adventure

Adventure

Fallo said...Adventure is a text-mode game, so how would using a different video card help anything

Well, if you look at the screenshot on the retrograde website, you'll see that the game, even though it's displaying text, looks to be running in 40 char width(unless mine eyes deceive me). This isn't a MDA mode, you need at least CGA.
The VGA adapter has to emulate CGA, and if it has a problem with that, or emulation is turned off on it, or whatever...

If you look at the specs for the original game, here, http://www.textfiles.com/digitize/items/1981-microsoft-adventure/.m/1981-microsoft-adventure-01.jpg
you'll see that it wants a PC, single diskette drive (it's a 180k image) , min 32 k of memory.

The display, well, to quote

For display purposes, you have the option of using the IBM monochrome display, a standard monitor, or your own TV set with an RF modulator

In other words, MDA or CGA in low-res BIOS mode 0 or 1. This was written before VGA was even a twinkle in some engineer's eye, so God knows what the program makes of VGA. It'll use a straight MDA if it can find it, and if it thinks there's a CGA card, will try to use that and switch it into either mode 0 or mode 1. For this to work, the VGA card must emulate the CGA properly, and the modes must be supported in BIOS. Hence the suggestion to try another video card. It's not neccessarily a problem with VGA per say, since it work on his P4, but perhaps an issue with the VGA adapter in his XT, as not all VGA adapters & bios's are created equal.

patscc

 

[Fallo]

In other words, MDA or CGA in low-res BIOS mode 0 or 1. This was written before VGA was even a twinkle in some engineer's eye, so God knows what the program makes of VGA. It'll use a straight MDA if it can find it, and if it thinks there's a CGA card, will try to use that and switch it into either mode 0 or mode 1. For this to work, the VGA card must emulate the CGA properly, and the modes must be supported in BIOS. Hence the suggestion to try another video card. It's not neccessarily a problem with VGA per say, since it work on his P4, but perhaps an issue with the VGA adapter in his XT, as not all VGA adapters & bios's are created equal.

patscc

I still think it's an issue with the disk image. A video problem wouldn't cause the boot to fail.

 

[patscc]

Works

Works

Well, I got it to work on a Nec Powermate, which uses a EGA-type card, so it's nothing inheritantly wrong with the image, I'd say.

The game comes up in 40-width, mono.

What's wierd is that I tried running dsk2img on an XP, and it would happily transfer it to a 1.44, but not a 720, even though I can format a 720 just fine.
I had to copy the image & tool onto the 720, then copy it onto the Powermate, run the tool on the Powermate to re-image the 720k floppy, and then reboot. Voila.
Appearantly it's copywrite '79, and has the complete version of MIT's adventure, or at least that's what it says in the instructions.

Hmhh. I might just have to play it now...

patscc

 

[QuantumII]

I still think it's an issue with the disk image. A video problem wouldn't cause the boot to fail.

MS Flightsim has the same issue.. It won't boot either.. I'm beginning to think that there's a compatibility issue somewhere..

 

[per]

MS Flightsim has the same issue.. It won't boot either.. I'm beginning to think that there's a compatibility issue somewhere..

My guess is that the FDD in your Pentium has a slighly smaller write/read head than the drive in my 486. If you try to install a 360Kb drive in your pentium and write the disk with that (remember to reformat with the 360Kb disk)?

Or you might try to format the drive in the XT before you write the image to it in the Pentium.

 

[QuantumII]

My guess is that the FDD in your Pentium has a slighly smaller write/read head than the drive in my 486. If you try to install a 360Kb drive in your pentium and write the disk with that (remember to reformat with the 360Kb disk)?

Or you might try to format the drive in the XT before you write the image to it in the Pentium.

Remember folks, I've done everything on the XT. The pentium was only involved when the XT could not boot it, and I needed a second place to test it.

Come to think of it, I also have that luggable XT-clone Philips.. Might as well try it there, but my mission is to get it onto the IBM XT

 

[per]

Remember folks, I've done everything on the XT. The pentium was only involved when the XT could not boot it, and I needed a second place to test it.

Come to think of it, I also have that luggable XT-clone Philips.. Might as well try it there, but my mission is to get it onto the IBM XT

Have you tried to unplug the HDD controller? it might be it's extension BIOS that's causin problems. Does the floppy do anything on startup at all?

If not, try to unplug all cards except for the video card and FDD controller. If that fails, set the switches to 64Kb of RAM (you don't need to unplug any IC's), if still problems, try another FDD controller.

 

[QuantumII]

Have you tried to unplug the HDD controller? it might be it's extension BIOS that's causin problems. Does the floppy do anything on startup at all?

If not, try to unplug all cards except for the video card and FDD controller. If that fails, set the switches to 64Kb of RAM (you don't need to unplug any IC's), if still problems, try another FDD controller.

The floppy does nothing. Just as if a blank floppy was in the drive. I can try without the HDD controller. As for the floppy controller, I only have the one which lives inside the XT. (The luggable machine has the FDD controller integrated)

 

[per]

The floppy does nothing. Just as if a blank floppy was in the drive. I can try without the HDD controller. As for the floppy controller, I only have the one which lives inside the XT. (The luggable machine has the FDD controller integrated)

Wait a minute... Do you say the FDD controller is intergrated in the Mother Board? The IBM XT should only have a keyboard input and a speaker output (and of course the system-bus) on the MotherBoard.

by "doing something", I meant "does it spin up at all and try to read the disk or is it just playing dead"?

*in addition, but kindof off topic*
As of my point of view, extra stuff intergrated in the Motherboard is often low-end products with bad quality. You would have been surprised if you saw (or heard) the intergrated soundcard in my not-too-old, broken, Win98SE Celeron 533MHz computer. At some points, it jerked the sound anyhow many db it was, and not just a litte jerking as you get when you play LOUD music through your laptop output, but more like when you are inbetween two radio-channels with an FM-tuner.

 

[QuantumII]

Wait a minute... Do you say the FDD controller is intergrated in the Mother Board? The IBM XT should only have a keyboard input and a speaker output (and of course the system-bus) on the MotherBoard.

by "doing something", I meant "does it spin up at all and try to read the disk or is it just playing dead"?

*in addition, but kindof off topic*
As of my point of view, extra stuff intergrated in the Motherboard is often low-end products with bad quality. You would have been surprised if you saw (or heard) the intergrated soundcard in my not-too-old, broken, Win98SE Celeron 533MHz computer. At some points, it jerked the sound anyhow many db it was, and not just a litte jerking as you get when you play LOUD music through your laptop output, but more like when you are inbetween two radio-channels with an FM-tuner.

To make things clear(er)

I have 2 vintage machines:

1st being an XT clone luggable, which is actually a Logic Analyzer made by philips (combined PC and logic analyzer) It's an extended clone really, because it has RTC and serial on board (However, the RTC requires a TSR to be loaded first to function)

2nd being the IBM PC XT (Real thing)

The Logic Analyzer XT luggable has the FDD controller on-board.
The real IBM XT has the FDD controller as a separate card.

The machine which cannot boot the image is the IBM XT.
The machine which made the disk is also the IBM XT.

I plan on trying it on the logic analyzer just to see if that works or not.


To answer your question;

It spins, lights the red little light and the IBM goes into ROM basic. No stepper motor sound or whatever. Just the same as if a blank disk was inside the drive at boot-time.

If I take the same diskette and format it with FORMAT A: /S it boots from the floppy just fine

 

[patscc]

Vga

Vga

Seriously, guys, I'd try it either with a different type of video adapter all together, or at least a different VGA card. The NEC I got it working on has a MFM hd controller, by the way, and the game didn't seem to care about the hd at all.

patscc

 

[Fallo]

Does your XT have a full-height floppy or a half-height? I've been wondering because there are some slight differences between the two (rotation speed? I can't remember exactly what it was), and maybe that throws the disk off (Adventure would have originally been designed for FH drives).

I know for example that DOS 2.10 added support for HH drives, and supposedly the previous versions would only work correctly on FH drives.

 

[Terry Yager]

Does your XT have a full-height floppy or a half-height? I've been wondering because there are some slight differences between the two (rotation speed? I can't remember exactly what it was), and maybe that throws the disk off (Adventure would have originally been designed for FH drives).

I know for example that DOS 2.10 added support for HH drives, and supposedly the previous versions would only work correctly on FH drives.

???...??? News to me...

--T

 

[Fallo]

???...??? News to me...

--T

It's true. Look up some info on DOS 2.10 with Google. The PCjr and IBM 5155 were the first PCs with half-height drives.

 

[QuantumII]

It's true. Look up some info on DOS 2.10 with Google. The PCjr and IBM 5155 were the first PCs with half-height drives.

It has 2 HH drives.

EDIT: I tried the booter on my Philips analyzer, and it boots just fine.... Maybe it's just not compatible with the XT's current configuration (FDD controller and HH drives)

 

[per]

It has 2 HH drives.

EDIT: I tried the booter on my Philips analyzer, and it boots just fine.... Maybe it's just not compatible with the XT's current configuration (FDD controller and HH drives)

Just to rule out the small details nobody would need to care about because they're in the most causes obivous assumed:
Are all the drives turned the correct way (none up-side-down)? and do you insert the floppy the correct way in all drives?

If you try to make a boot disk of DOS 2.1 (obtainable from Frozenfire's web-site) the same way you mad the image of MS Adventure. Does that work?

 

[patscc]

booter works on XT, but...

booter works on XT, but...

I dug an XT out from storage, and put a Paradise VGA card in it (PVGA1A chipset). There's all kinds of other junk in the XT, hard-card, Quadram board, port cards.

Using the original FH drives to re-image, game booted & loaded just fine. Re-imaging was done (with the XT's FH drive) on an Ahtlon.

I tried a HH 1.2 Mb drive, and on the XT it wouldn't load. (I used the same 1.2 to re-image as a 360 disk), but it loads fine on an Athlon.

I tried both versions in a IBM Portable PC, and neither loaded, and then discovered that the orignal XT FH 360 is slightly out of whack (but since I used it to re-image it worked ok), and that the HH 360 on the Portable PC is really out of whack, as it wouldn't even boot a commercial disk. So now I'm trying to decide if I want to tear the Portable PC apart to get at the drives or not.

patscc

 

[Fallo]

I tried both versions in a IBM Portable PC, and neither loaded, and then discovered that the orignal XT FH 360 is slightly out of whack (but since I used it to re-image it worked ok), and that the HH 360 on the Portable PC is really out of whack, as it wouldn't even boot a commercial disk. So now I'm trying to decide if I want to tear the Portable PC apart to get at the drives or not.

patscc

Reminds me of the time I tested a Tandon FH drive in my Pentium. The drive worked and read disks written with my 386's Teac 1.2 MB drive, but when I tried to format a virgin disk, it ended up with a bunch of bad sectors. I concluded then that the Tandon drive was out of alignment.