Apple ][ Europlus Fault?

[Olds-kool gamer]

Hi guys,

Up until a few hours ago my Apple II Europlus was working fine.
I turned it on this morning and the Shift key was stuck down.
I started to tap on it vigorously to un-stick it and then this happened.

I checked all the chips and made sure they were seated correctly.
Unplugged all the boards and re-seated everything correctly but no change.

Have I reined my Apple!

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated...

 

[tezza]

Well, I've seen that symptom lots of times on my Europlus, when I was trying to fix it. Unfortunately, it could be almost anything. At least the video seems to be working.

I was fortunate in fixing mine, in that I had another working II plus clone I could chip swap with. There was plenty wrong with it.

Do you have any test equipment, and some reference literature? I have a second non-working apple II+ clone I'll be trying to fix soon with a newly acquired scope. The advice seems to be to start from the CPU, check if that's working and work out.

The fact that your screen is completely blank (is it always like that or do you see random characters sometimes?), the CPU and it's supporting ICs might be a good place to start.

Sorry I can't be of more help. I'm still learning electronics and have some way to go.

Tez

 

[Olds-kool gamer]

Hello Tez,
Many thanks for your comments...

I've tried swapping the CPU that's all I could do, as I do not have any spares at all to do "swap outs" with, which is about as far as my electrical expertise goes.

I do not get any characters at all just the flashing Curser. The computer still "beeps" when you turn it on and "appears" to accept commands etc (as far as I can tell)

I suspect it maybe something to do with the character generator Rom, but I can't be sure.

It's a shame because I have a full set-up, which until this morning was all working fine. I guess it will have to go back into the loft until such time as I can get hold of some spares…

 

[tezza]

If it beeps and accepts commands, it could well be some circuitry around displaying the characters.

It's a shame because I have a full set-up, which until this morning was all working fine. I guess it will have to go back into the loft until such time as I can get hold of some spares…

Yes, it's a bummer when that happens. I sympathise.

One very positive thing about receiving all those old Apple and Apple clones sometime back (apart from the fact that I managed to get four of them working) was that I now have a pile of vintage ICs squestered from the two non-working remaining boards. These have come in handy for all sorts of Apple and non-Apple repairs.

Tez

 

[tezza]

Does the cursor move at all when you type?

Tez

 

[Olds-kool gamer]

Does the cursor move at all when you type? Tez

Hi,

Yes, everything seems normal other then you can see any characters…

 

[tezza]

Hmm.. That certainly narrows it down. It doesn't seem like a RAM problem, although some mid-memory RAM is allocated to video modes and that could be playing up.

You might want to download the book "understanding the Apple II" by Jim Sather, assuming you don't already have it. This goes deep into the workings of the machine. It might help isolate the part of the circuitry that's giving you grief.

A google search should reveal it.

Tez

 

[harry]

apple europlus fault?

apple europlus fault?

sometimes, It s good to resort to basics, on these apple II's, have you tried removing all boards from their sockets, including the disk drive boards, then try to power up with no boards at all installed, see what happens? you can also disconnect the keyboard plug, then power up to see whats on screen? (your screen appears to need adjusting to reduce its brightness level , you have checked any screen controls? also monitor lead, and socket outlet connection)
you should at least see it you can get a prompt on screen, if so then reinstall
the disk drive board, see what happens, if you have no prompt, with no boards
and no keyboard, but you have video, it would seem to indicate the rom, not loading? best of luck Harry

 

[chuckcmagee]

Hmm, could it be as simple as green text on a green screen? Or something along those lines? If the cursor moves as you type, as stated, ...

 

[Olds-kool gamer]

Hmm.. That certainly narrows it down. It doesn't seem like a RAM problem, although some mid-memory RAM is allocated to video modes and that could be playing up.

You might want to download the book "understanding the Apple II" by Jim Sather, assuming you don't already have it. This goes deep into the workings of the machine. It might help isolate the part of the circuitry that's giving you grief.

A google search should reveal it. Tez

Thanks...

I've got a service manual. Googled quite a lot but I'm not really technical and I don't have any equipment or for that matter any spares so I think this Apple is done for...

 

[Olds-kool gamer]

sometimes, It s good to resort to basics, on these apple II's, have you tried removing all boards from their sockets, including the disk drive boards, then try to power up with no boards at all installed, see what happens? you can also disconnect the keyboard plug, then power up to see whats on screen? (your screen appears to need adjusting to reduce its brightness level , you have checked any screen controls? also monitor lead, and socket outlet connection)
you should at least see it you can get a prompt on screen, if so then reinstall
the disk drive board, see what happens, if you have no prompt, with no boards and no keyboard, but you have video, it would seem to indicate the rom, not loading? best of luck Harry

Thanks Harry for all of the above, it’s as if you’ve had a secret camera on me.

I tried all those things 2 or 3 times over as well as re-seating most of the IC's but alas to no effect.

In fact I think I've made things worse, as I don't get any pictuer at all now.

 

[Olds-kool gamer]

Hmm, could it be as simple as green text on a green screen? Or something along those lines? If the cursor moves as you type, as stated, ...

That’s exactly what I was hoping someone would say but I don’t think it’s that simple. I don’t know how to even reverse the screen output?

Thanks for the suggestion anyway...

I’ve only got myself to blame I didn’t realize how delicate these Apples are.

I think I’ll find a quiet corner, curl up into a ball and sob my little heart out. :--(

 

[tezza]

I’ve only got myself to blame I didn’t realize how delicate these Apples are.

I think I’ll find a quiet corner, curl up into a ball and sob my little heart out. :--(

The frustrating thing with these old computers such as the Apple II+ is that you KNOW they are totally fixable (unlike modern LSI machines). It will probably be a single socketed IC, or dry solder joint. So easy to repair.

Yet so hard to diagnose!

Do you know any kind soul in the area who could make their machine available to you as a test unit to swap out some of the ICs?

Tez

 

[Olds-kool gamer]

The frustrating thing with these old computers such as the Apple II+ is that you KNOW they are totally fixable (unlike modern LSI machines). It will probably be a single socketed IC, or dry solder joint. So easy to repair.

Yet so hard to diagnose!

Do you know any kind soul in the area who could make their machine available to you as a test unit to swap out some of the ICs? Tez

Hello Tez,

Thanks for the above.

And there lies the problem….

If I was in the US I would probably be able to find people locally or even have friends that own one.

Everybody I know and I’m talking about quite a few people in the same age group as me i.e. late 30’s early 40’s have never heard of them. They only know Apple’s as Mac’s and not many people have early Mac’s either.

Here in the UK we didn’t warm to these early Apple computers. I can only surmise that we had a multitude of Micros to choose from and price may have been a factor.

I have approx 45 plus retro Micro’s, which if any of them broke down (excluding the Sam Coupé) I would be able to repair or replace quite easily but I only have one Apple II+ (or had in this case)

I would be prepared to post it to someone but unless you can rely on someone’s generosity (regarding Labor) I guess it would be too uneconomical.

Thanks again for your comments, I can tell from your Blog, you treasure your machines as much as I do...

 

[tezza]

Hello Tez,

Thanks for the above.

And there lies the problem….

If I was in the US I would probably be able to find people locally or even have friends that own one.

Everybody I know and I’m talking about quite a few people in the same age group as me i.e. late 30’s early 40’s have never heard of them. They only know Apple’s as Mac’s and not many people have early Mac’s either.

Here in the UK we didn’t warm to these early Apple computers. I can only surmise that we had a multitude of Micros to choose from and price may have been a factor.

I have approx 45 plus retro Micro’s, which if any of them broke down (excluding the Sam Coupé) I would be able to repair or replace quite easily but I only have one Apple II+ (or had in this case)

I would be prepared to post it to someone but unless you can rely on someone’s generosity (regarding Labor) I guess it would be too uneconomical.

Thanks again for your comments, I can tell from your Blog, you treasure your machines as much as I do...

Pity you are on the other side of the globe. I have two working Apple II+s. It would be so easy to swap out suspect ICs.

Well...don't give up. Now I have a scope, I'll soon be tackling an Apple II+ clone which has a heat related problem as described in this thread. I'm starting to get some understanding as to how these things work and to prepare for this job, I'll be going through Jim Sather's book again. It's actually starting to make sense to me now. If I come across any thoughts as to what your problem might be I'll let you know.

Just to confirm, the screen is completely blank (no garbage characters)? Sometimes you can see a cursor that moves and sometimes you can't. Is that correct? And it happened when you tapped a stuck key very hard to unstick it, yes? I'm assuming you get the symptom when the keyboard is unplugged also?

Do you have a collection/source of logic chips available from any junk machines or cards you could use as replacements, or would you have to buy those that you needed to replace?

Tez


Tez

 

[Olds-kool gamer]

Just to confirm, the screen is completely blank (no garbage characters)? Sometimes you can see a cursor that moves and sometimes you can't. Is that correct? And it happened when you tapped a stuck key very hard to unstick it, yes? I'm assuming you get the symptom when the keyboard is unplugged also?

Do you have a collection/source of logic chips available from any junk machines or cards you could use as replacements, or would you have to buy those that you needed to replace?

Tez

Yes that’s correct. The screen is blank and reversed no characters at all. The curser is just a solid square, as below.

I don’t have any chips to swap out and because I’ve messed about with it and pulled chips in and out it won’t come on at all now.

When I turned it on yesterday the "Shift Key" was stuck down but everything was working.

I use the word "tapped" but I gave it quite a vigorous slap (or 2) to un-jam it. I should have turned it off first but for some reason I wasn’t thinking. When I did turn it off the "shift Key" decided to pop back up but to my despair on re-boot I was greeted with the above screen.

Now the Screen is totally Black.

I should be banned from owning old Apple's and just go back on my Xbox360 :sarcasm:

 

[tezza]

Yes that’s correct. The screen is blank and reversed no characters at all. The curser is just a solid square, as below.

I don’t have any chips to swap out and because I’ve messed about with it and pulled chips in and out it won’t come on at all now.

When I turned it on yesterday the "Shift Key" was stuck down but everything was working.

I use the word "tapped" but I gave it quite a vigorous slap (or 2) to un-jam it. I should have turned it off first but for some reason I wasn’t thinking. When I did turn it off the "shift Key" decided to pop back up but to my despair on re-boot I was greeted with the above screen.

Now the Screen is totally Black.

Hmm..that doesn't sound good. I wonder if a track or socket has been broken?

If you are happy to pay shipping both ways, one possibility is you post me the Apple II+ motherboard and I can take a look at it and do some testing/IC swapping where I think the problem might lie. No charge at all of course. Some people from this forum have helped me out at times, and I'm happy to do the same for true vintage enthusiasts.

However, I can't guarentee I WILL be able to fix it. I'm not an electronics technician and a solution to my Apple + clone has so far eluded me. I did fix my other Apples though. At worst, you lose some pounds in shipping costs.

Tez

 

[Olds-kool gamer]

Hmm..that doesn't sound good. I wonder if a track or socket has been broken?

If you are happy to pay shipping both ways, one possibility is you post me the Apple II+ motherboard and I can take a look at it and do some testing/IC swapping where I think the problem might lie. No charge at all of course. Some people from this forum have helped me out at times, and I'm happy to do the same for true vintage enthusiasts.

However, I can't guarentee I WILL be able to fix it. I'm not an electronics technician and a solution to my Apple + clone has so far eluded me. I did fix my other Apples though. At worst, you lose some pounds in shipping costs. Tez

Hello Tez,

That very kind of you and "very much" appreciated.

At the end of the day if you can’t fix it I’m no worse off, otherwise it will just go back into the loft and probably never see the light of day again, which I think would be a real shame.

I’ll make some enquires on what it will cost to ship to and from NZ and PM you if it’s not too expensive.

Thanks again….

 

[Druid6900]

Hello Tez,

That very kind of you and "very much" appreciated.

At the end of the day if you can’t fix it I’m no worse off, otherwise it will just go back into the loft and probably never see the light of day again, which I think would be a real shame.

I’ll make some enquires on what it will cost to ship to and from NZ and PM you if it’s not too expensive.

Thanks again….

It would be cheaper to send it to me in Canada rather than try and have the Post Office try and hit some rinky-dink little island in the South Pacific.

I'll stand you the same deal as Tez. I AM a technician, I DO have the test equipment and I have the spare parts too.

HOWEVER, what I would do is take the RAM chips form the first row and swap them for the chips in the third row (first row being closest to the BACK of the computer)

You choose

 

[Olds-kool gamer]

It would be cheaper to send it to me in Canada rather than try and have the Post Office try and hit some rinky-dink little island in the South Pacific.

I'll stand you the same deal as Tez. I AM a technician, I DO have the test equipment and I have the spare parts too.

HOWEVER, what I would do is take the RAM chips form the first row and swap them for the chips in the third row (first row being closest to the BACK of the computer) You choose

Wow guys I’m overwhelmed with the offers of help.
Wipes tear from eye. - "It was a bit of dust I tell you!”

I’ll give it a go and see what happens.

I really thought this Europlus was doomed but it "might" live once more (fingers crossed)

I’ll post back with the results.