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Adding second RD54 to RQDX3 on RSX11M plus V3 in BA23

PG31 said:
This is the URL that I used to check the RD54 drive links etc. http://gunkies.org/wiki/RD54

My original RD54 is an RD54-A and my new one is RD54-EA, both are Maxtor XT-2190 series 2. When I first received the new RD54 I checked all the links and they were the same. I removed my original RD54 from the BA23 and installed the new RD54 the drive ready light comes on but after some time the system comes back with media not mounted on DU0(or something similar). Unfortunateley I don't have xxdp to format or test the drive. I was hoping not to format it in case it had an o/s already on it.
Click to expand...

Well...

  • I'm going to assume you've been dealing correctly with the termination resistor pack.
  • From the ready light behavior - it sounds like it may be healthy.
  • I'm still surprised the system didn't boot with it as SEL4 ("3" per the specs you found)
  • From the "Boot" behavior - if it has a system on it, it's not a PDP-11 system.
  • If it's not a DEC format already, it needs to be formatted via XXDP .

We're going to have to figure out a way for you to run XXDP. [sometimes called CSDP] The usual method would have been a set of floppies or on TK50 included with the system originally.

RSX and bootable BRUSYS have FMT and BAD on them, but I don't think it can do the first format. For that you need ZRQC an XXDP utility.

The easiest thing to do will be for you to equip yourself with a 5.25" drive that's RX33 compatible, and some HD 5.25 floppies. Is this a possibility?
 
I've installed the six button control panel and tried all the permutations again and I am still unable to get the new RD54 to boot. I know that it has come from a DEC system as it has the RD54 label on top and the black plastic "sled" on the bottom. I don't have XXDP available, so I will keep my eye out for XXDP as well. I don't have a PC with a 5.25" floppy either.

When I have "many" hours available I will do the capture that you have provided earlier in the thread:)
 
You say you know it came from a dec system... could it have been a micro-VAX system? Even a PDP-11 UNIX system would have been bootable. It could have been from a DEC system originally, and re-formatted to be used in a PC. Unless you know the lineage, you can't be sure.

There's no other reason I can think of that it would prevent booting another drive in the same system. Even if it were not "SYSTEM" disk [no OS on it].

I really wouldn't bother letting the DMP run until we can verify your ability to capture it. What kind of machine/software is your terminal emulator running on?

What does the 6-button pannel look like? If it's like the one I posted, try depressing the "Ready" button for Drive 2 [unit 1 slot DS4]. The system should boot normally on Drive 1 [unit 0 slot DS3].

Once the system has booted, then hit the Ready for Drive 2 and see if the system operates with that drive enabled. You may not be able to do anything with it yet, but it will tell us it's electrically operable.

I'll wait for answers before going further.
 
""What does the 6-button pannel look like? If it's like the one I posted, try depressing the "Ready" button for Drive 2 [unit 1 slot DS4]. The system should boot normally on Drive 1 [unit 0 slot DS3].

Once the system has booted, then hit the Ready for Drive 2 and see if the system operates with that drive enabled. You may not be able to do anything with it yet, but it will tell us it's electrically operable.

I'll wait for answers before going further. ""

The six button panel has all the links and switches that you described previousely, Ichecked the links are ok in the BA23 maintenance manual. With drive 2 disbaled by the switch the system doesnt boot. with it enabled the system does boot from drive 1.

I''ve turned my Baud rate down to 9600 and captured a couple of seconds worth of output using hyperterminal. I've attached some of the capture to see if it is correct.
 
DMO -- Device not in system
>dmo DU0;/dev/lock=v
DMO -- Device not in system
>dmo DU0:/dev/lock=v
DMO -- System disk being dismounted
DMO -- SYSTEM dismounted from DU0: *** Final dismount initiated ***
23:50:00 *** DU0: -- Dismount complete
>mou DU0:/for
>dmp ti:=DU0:/wd/bl:0





Dump of DU0:
Logical block 0,000000 - Size 512. bytes


95DF 0100 7321 5B10 13E7 0001 0104 00B0 0000
0600 15C4 1045 0701 0001 15C5 FFFE 00E0 0010
15C6 1004 0A02 7EC2 1454 0A01 0100 15C3 0020
17C2 F468 15C5 0202 0BC5 0636 15C7 0800 0030
0302 0002 0BF5 00C8 15C4 0006 17C3 0004 0040
0004 0A35 0002 FD00 15F5 7F06 00EC 0077 0050
11C0 034C 0010 0001 25F5 0010 0001 15F5 0060
0341 8BC8 FF00 45C1 0016 1D41 0066 65C0 0070
25C1 030C 0040 25C1 01FA 2410 0302 A201 0080
0A01 0A02 001C 10B5 7288 0BD0 0309 0041 0090
0039 95CD 0006 10B5 50C2 00C2 7281 D801 00A0
03F8 8080 35CD 02FD 0AC4 5996 0008 15C4 00B0
55F5 4009 15CD 031C 0022 0020 35F5 803A 00C0
1612 01A2 1611 01A2 1610 01EB 001A 0200 00D0
2017 01B2 1F16 00A0 2015 00A0 2014 01A2 00E0
0000 0000 0041 0000 0040 0640 3222 0260 00F0
0A02 0010 10B5 0042 7297 01FE 0000 0000 0100
0100 35F5 0006 10B5 50C2 00C2 0016 7297 0110
35CD 0011 15CD 0002 0400 55F7 0303 000A 0120
0A07 FFF8 45C4 0008 1D44 81E6 03FD 8080 0130
8000 0000 0000 010B 0002 10F7 0008 10B7 0140
0000 0621 0458 0009 0458 0001 0000 0458 0150
0BCD 10C4 FFE6 65C3 11C3 1095 0800 15C2 0160
0334 14C1 80F9 0CC2 14CD 03FC 308D 8139 0170
FD7E 0030 15F1 1081 02FD 0BC1 0A21 1042 0180
FD86 9031 FD82 0001 15F1 FD80 0001 15F1 0190
FF9A 1DF1 0206 0BCB FD8F 94F1 FD8A 94F1 01A0
15D2 1312 020E 15D2 FDA0 FF96 1DF1 FD9E 01B0
0ACE 5996 0014 15E6 FFFE 0BF5 130A 01DA 01C0
8BF1 81F5 FFFC 0BF2 0206 0BCD 0BD6 02FD 01D0
0A07 0A07 1004 0A25 01BC 0A25 03CC FDC0 01E0
0A07 0A07 0A07 0A07 0A07 0A07 0A07 0A07 01F0





Dump of DU0:
Logical block 0,000001 - Size 512. bytes


5352 0101 0000 0001 4AC7 5FD0 0002 0005 0000
0101 0000 0000 0034 324C 4250 4D31 3158 0010
0003 0507 0000 0000 0000 E000 0018 0000 0020
414A 3931 D86E 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0030
0000 0000 0000 0035 3334 3134 3134 394E 0040
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0050
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0060
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0070
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0080
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0090
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00A0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00B0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00C0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00D0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00E0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00F0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0110
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0120
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0130
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0140
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0150
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0160
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0170
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0180
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0190
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 01A0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 01B0
0000 0000 3039 3039 0000 0000 0000 0000 01C0
4250 4D31 3158 5352 0000 0000 0000 0000 01D0
2020 205D 3130 302C 3130 305B 0034 324C 01E0
0F5D 0000 2020 4131 3145 4C49 4643 4544 01F0





Dump of DU0:
Logical block 0,000002 - Size 512. bytes


5453 5953 4D45 5453 5953 3130 3031 3030 0000
4D45 5453 5953 2020 2020 2020 2020 4D45 0010
5953 0029 1F09 0D6E 0217 2020 2020 2020 0020
0000 0002 0000 0000 0000 1984 0000 3030 0030
0101 000F 0020 2020 2020 2020 2020 5D5B 0040
0000 0000 3219 0D36 F517 7066 0001 52D2 0050
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0060
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0070
4353 4F47 0000 0000 0000 3530 3031 3030 0080
2020 4C55 4150 2020 2020 2020 4542 4D4F 0090
5544 0009 2914 080B 0B03 2020 2020 2020 00A0
6518 0002 0000 0000 0000 51CA 0000 3030 00B0
0101 0000 005D 4D45 4D2C 5055 4F52 475B 00C0
0000 0000 15E1 EA7F C58E 60C2 0001 5107 00D0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00E0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00F0
4258 4F52 0000 0000 0000 3034 3331 3030 0100
4154 5349 4C41 2020 2020 2020 4847 5255 0110
5544 0002 0922 0A5E 0C13 2020 2020 5249 0120
0910 0002 0000 0000 0000 51CA 0000 3030 0130
0101 0000 0020 2020 205D 3034 332C 315B 0140
0000 0000 8861 9E83 7D0C 79A0 0001 C33D 0150
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0160
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0170
4C53 4548 0000 0000 0000 3035 3331 3030 0180
204E 4149 5242 2020 2020 2020 2020 504F 0190
5544 00B6 0223 0F0A 0108 2020 2020 2020 01A0
0DC0 0002 0000 0000 0000 51CA 0000 3030 01B0
0101 0000 0020 2020 205D 3035 332C 315B 01C0
0000 0000 1D93 E763 6AED D948 0001 1490 01D0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 01E0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 01F0





Dump of DU0:
Logical block 0,000003 - Size 512. bytes


4F42 534F 0000 0000 0000 3036 3331 3030 0000
2020 4556 4144 2020 2020 2020 2045 4E52 0010
5544 000C 0930 0A0A 0204 2020 2020 2020 0020
1937 0002 0000 0000 0000 1984 0000 3030 0030
0101 0000 0020 205D 454E 524F 4253 4F5B 0040
0000 0000 A66E 41B3 302D 9BCD 0001 7725 0050
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0060
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0070
4B4E 4142 0000 0000 0000 3037 3331 3030 0080
4E49 5452 414D 2020 2020 2020 2020 2053 0090
5953 0002 1226 0E61 0113 2020 2020 2020 00A0
0000 0002 0000 0000 0000 51CA 0000 3030 00B0
0101 0000 0020 2020 205D 534B 4E41 425B 00C0
0000 0000 727E 5D4B 4552 2D05 0001 1D94 00D0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00E0
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00F0
2020 2020 0000 0000 0000 3331 3037 3030 0100
2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 0110
5544 000B 3919 1105 030E 2020 2020 2020 0120
14A1 0002 0000 0000 0000 1984 1A0A 3030 0130
0101 0000 0020 5D4E 4F53 494E 4E45 445B 0140
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 66AD 0150
 
PG31 said:
DMO -- Device not in system
>dmo DU0;/dev/lock=v
DMO -- Device not in system
>dmo DU0:/dev/lock=v
DMO -- System disk being dismounted
DMO -- SYSTEM dismounted from DU0: *** Final dismount initiated ***
23:50:00 *** DU0: -- Dismount complete
>mou DU0:/for
>dmp ti:=DU0:/wd/bl:0





Dump of DU0:
Logical block 0,000000 - Size 512. bytes


95DF 0100 7321 5B10 13E7 0001 0104 00B0 0000
0600 15C4 1045 0701 0001 15C5 FFFE 00E0 0010
15C6 1004 0A02 7EC2 1454 0A01 0100 15C3 0020
17C2 F468 15C5 0202 0BC5 0636 15C7 0800 0030
0302 0002 0BF5 00C8 15C4 0006 17C3 0004 0040
0004 0A35 0002 FD00 15F5 7F06 00EC 0077 0050
11C0 034C 0010 0001 25F5 0010 0001 15F5 0060
0341 8BC8 FF00 45C1 0016 1D41 0066 65C0 0070
25C1 030C 0040 25C1 01FA 2410 0302 A201 0080
0A01 0A02 001C 10B5 7288 0BD0 0309 0041 0090
0039 95CD 0006 10B5 50C2 00C2 7281 D801 00A0
03F8 8080 35CD 02FD 0AC4 5996 0008 15C4 00B0
...
Click to expand...
They appear to have changed the DMP output format, which should be ok.

That output looks good and clean - no overruns, but I just want to be clear... that's from the actual capture file, not a cut&paste from the terminal emulator screen, right?

If it is from the file, then we're good and you're all set.
 
PG31 said:
RSX11M+ said:
What does the 6-button pannel look like? If it's like the one I posted, try depressing the "Ready" button for Drive 2 [unit 1 slot DS4]. The system should boot normally on Drive 1 [unit 0 slot DS3].

Once the system has booted, then hit the Ready for Drive 2 and see if the system operates with that drive enabled. You may not be able to do anything with it yet, but it will tell us it's electrically operable.

I'll wait for answers before going further.
Click to expand...

The six button panel has all the links and switches that you described previousely, Ichecked the links are ok in the BA23 maintenance manual. With drive 2 disbaled by the switch the system doesnt boot. with it enabled the system does boot from drive 1....
Click to expand...
Um... is that a typo, or did you just say that you got the system to boot with both drives present and enabled???
Please clear that up for me.

Ok, so this is your panel now? :
BA23_6button_fp.jpg


The curious thing is that for DRIVE 2 to be usable, the manual claims W2 should not be in the position shown, but in the "Upper Position".


Anyway, again I'll wait for your clarification. Sounds like we might be making progress.
 
Sorry, my mistake it doesn't boot with the second RD54 installed as either SEL3 or SEL4, tried original drive with SEL3 and SEL4 on its own and it boots.
Yes, this panel is the same as the one that I've installed. W2 is on the top to pins.
I'm starting to suspect that the new RD54 is faulty.
 
We really need to get some way for you to run XXDP. I've seen some pretty bizarre things with incorrectly formatted drives in these systems.

However, you could be correct.

One last thought - You mentioned Termination Resistors...

  • Have you tried with the termination resistors installed in BOTH drives at once?
  • Also - are these resistors DIP type or SIP type?
If they're SIP - be sure they are inserted correctly. [obviously they're ok in your old drive] There is a Pin 1 and it needs to be in the right orientation.

​

I'm running out of ideas though.
 
The resistor packs are DIP and are installed in the correct orientation. I've checked them for bent pins as well. tried with both drives in with both terminators in, both out and one in on either drive.
 
Ok, I've reviewed my questions and your answers on this thread. Let's discuss the new drive's behavior.


About the "Blink'n Lights"


When the system is powered, the new drive can be heard spinning up, and the READY light "Comes on" when the spinning sound is steady. No growls or unusual noises - Right?

​
This isn't the typical behavior of a totally dead unit.
​

So it occurs to me to ask what the READY light does when when the CPU tries an IO on the drive?

Your healthy drive is a good model to study.
​

  • [*=1]Power the system with the CPU "HALT" button engaged.[*=1]Wait for the drive to come up READY.[*=1]Hit the WRITE PROTECT button and observe the light[*=1]Hit the READY button and observe the light[*=1]Then hit the RESET button, with the HALT still engaged.[*=1]Study the effect on the READY light.[*=1]Next, release the HALT, and hit RESET[*=1]again... observe the Working Drive's READY light behavior.

Now exchange the Working drive for the New one, and repeat the above.

​

Post what you observe. Maybe we can tell something by the various behaviors and how long they take. I'm trying to see through your eyes and deduce what kind of problem we have.
 
Finally got a chance to try the above,

working drive.
drive ready light on panel comes on and stays on after write protect pressed. Not lit on drive itself.
no change after ready pressed.
nothing happens when restart pressed.
release and press restart and after 5 secs drive boots up.

new drive,
every observation is the same apart from when I release the halt button and press restart. drive light gives one quick flash only.
 
I'm not quite sure I understand perfectly, but even just your last statement makes me think formatting might fix it.

I'm working on an alternative. Do you still have a PC available?
 
Please check out the procedure outlined here. If your PC has the necessary software, give it a try.

Begin with only the drive you intend to re-format installed in your target system. [Don't risk the other]

If you've never run ZRQC before, here's an example session and some other good info.



NOTE: Please be sure to capture the format session for posting here, in case you have questions.
 
Last edited:
Thanks again for your time, I've set the speed to 1200. Unfortunateley after the .txt file is sent and I type 145702G I get the following,(cut and paste from Hyperterm)

00031260/000000 10021
00031262/000000 406
00031264/000000
00031266/000000
00031270/000000 05
00031272/000000 7
00031274/000000 372
00031276/000000 11
00031300/000000
00031302/000000 74
00031304/000000 07
00031306/000000
00031310/000000 104023
00031312/000000 0701
00031314/000000 0
00031316/000000
00031320/000000 12600
00031322/000000
00031324/000000 40
00031326/000000
@145702G
145702
@145702G
145704
@

I've also tried at 300 baud with flow control as hardware and none and I get the same result. Out of interest it took 70 mins at 300 Baud.
 
The output of that capture is not what I'd expect - it should have ended at address 157776. Just an FYI - MicroODT doesn't issue any flow control, hardware or otherwise.

If you want to try again, please set the baud rate to 9600 with a 1ms character wait time and 100ms after each line. Transfer the file in TEXT mode. If that doesn't work, we need to come up with a new plan to do the transfer.

In the meantime, let me try to duplicate your results, I'm sure this will turn up some revelations.

You might help my testing if you can post back with what terminal emulation package you're using [I didn't recognize the last one you mentioned] to send the file to the target system, including precise serial word format and transfer settings. Please include any TXT file transfer options that it might have. [I.E. - Windows Hyperterm has a setting to add additional wait times when a CR is encountered]

In the end, it may be easiest to send the file using a customized program, which I'll write if needed. It will be a DOS program though, can you run it?

Anyway, I still think transferring XXDP programs via the console in ODT is a good direction, so if you're willing we'll keep at it till it works. We need to get ZRQC running on your hardware, to find out if reformatting your new hard drive helps.
 
Thanks, I'm now using Windows HyperTerminal. I have gone throught the settings,

9600, N,8,1 with no flow control.
I've set the line and character delay as above, all other settings are HyperTerminal default settings.
I'm using the option - transfer - send text file. I've also tried the option - transfer - send file (transfer doesn't start with this option!)
I've also saved a new copy of the odt2.txt file and tried this.

sample screen output copy and paste below,

@56?
@4704?
@62?
@4704?
@66?
@4704?
@72?
@4704?
@76?
@4704?
@102?
@4704?
@106?
@4704?
@112?
@4704?
@116?
@4704?
@122?
@4704?
@126?
@4704?
@132?
@
 
I've also tried with Tera Term Pro at various speeds and character and line delays and I get the same output in my very last post.

@76?
@4704?
@102?
@4704?
@106?
@4704?
@112?
@4704?
 
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