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DOS is for lazy people

Maverick1978 said:
So if he'd changed his thread title to "Once properly configured, DOS is for lazy people" would you agree? :)
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Not necessarily--it depends on the task. The Windoze cut-and-paste, for example, (even when using DOS tools) can be very valuable and not easily duplicated in DOS.

...and that's something that's always bothered me. The screen buffer is available, you have DOS mouse drivers, why not build a cut-and-paste into DOS?
 
Chuck(G) said:
Not necessarily--it depends on the task. The Windoze cut-and-paste, for example, (even when using DOS tools) can be very valuable and not easily duplicated in DOS.

...and that's something that's always bothered me. The screen buffer is available, you have DOS mouse drivers, why not build a cut-and-paste into DOS?
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Shouldn't be that hard for a crack programmer to put together (Hint, hint Chuck). Quick DOS [QDOS] has that function.
 
cut and paste from a prompt? In most editing apps they supported ctrl+ins, shift+ins for copy and paste, but of course that was a software/IDE controlled function, not the OS. I thought they had some recommended development standards they wanted folks to follow though (specifically with menu shortcut keys like File, Exit, etc being standards), not sure if that was with those or just a separate commonality with MS programs.
 
Sure there were standards, but all of the support had to be in the app. I can take two DOS apps that have no mouse support, say, LIST and an editor, under XP, cut from the LIST screen and paste it into the editor. Why could I not have done that under DOS 6.22?
 
Chuck(G) said:
Sure there were standards, but all of the support had to be in the app. I can take two DOS apps that have no mouse support, say, LIST and an editor, under XP, cut from the LIST screen and paste it into the editor. Why could I not have done that under DOS 6.22?
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I suspect one of the reasons is that apps didn't necessarily all deal with the display in a standard way and probably wouldn't know what to do with pasted text.

Granted, not quite as simple as using a DOS box in XP, but I do this sort of thing quite regularly; I either PrtScrn redirected to a file and import that into the editor, or just redirect or tee the output to a file and import that.

I do seem to recall a utility though that let you select and copy a text rectangle in 'real' DOS the same way as XP.
 
Maverick1978 said:
So if he'd changed his thread title to "Once properly configured, DOS is for lazy people" would you agree? :)
Click to expand...

I could (and would) just as easily have said that. When comparing OSs there are always various versions, such as pre installed, pre configured, or the raw version on a disk. I've never seen a pre-configure DOS, but it is theoretically possible - though a bit late. :) One of my main personal problems is that I can't remember stuff very easily so structuring and naming things myself helps. I also go through painful times when all this waving about with a mouse (I use a little one with very small finger movements) seems unnecessary. Easy to type key combinations are nice too.

I obviously missed a streak of posts here today, but I'll just comment in a general way.

Cut and paste is easy in DOS. I use SNIPPER and never bothered to try anything else because it's basically flawless. Automatic command completion, saving of screens with single keystroke recall, cursor acceleration and so on, are a given to my way of thinking. I can't imagine doing without those things if you like "fast and easy".

Here is a list of some of the TSRs that I use. The size is from my memory map so you can see how much space they take up. They are all in upper memory.

MONO 976 (1K)
Saves and recalls up to 8 screens in buffer. Hit F-11 to save F-12 to recall. Buffer works in a ring so just keep going round.

PSPLUS 4,304 (4K)
Shift-PrtScrn saves current screen to a file. This is handy since it does not need to be blocked.

SNIPPER 4,208 (4K)
Alt-S brings up a cursor to block, then - cut and paste to buffer or add to file.

CPDESK
Alt-Enter to open a window where you can type or paste paste to/from or keep notes to be accessible while running other programs. Flip through 10 windows with pgup pgdown.

INFOBAR 3,104 (3K)
Alt-1 brings up a ruler which tells you what column and line the cursor is on. As well as the ASCII character under the cursor.

SPECTRUM 2,928 (3K)
Ctrl-` brings up a little menu which will allow you to set colours of text and background. I find this handy if I want to see things the way I want to see them.

DOSED 3,408 (3K)
Automatic command completion and much more.

CRUISE 4,528 (4K)
Cruise conrol. Does many things, but mainly is needed so you can move the cursor which is not really very practical for more than small increments or end home (unless you need to scratch or something while you're waiting) otherwise. The cursor is programmed to start off at a slow speed and then accelerate according to your settings. This means that the cursor really flies. Much faster than a mouse when you get used to it. This will work on an XT as well if you want to get real.

Some of the other commands available from the above programs are:
Ctrl-S-D Insert date
Ctrl-S-T Insert time
edc (dirname) Instantly puts me in that directory on any of my 20 (non removable) drive letters.

Batch files take care of the rest, but of course there is:
NANSI 3,216 (3K) Gotta have colour in batch files.
RAMDRIVE 3,600 (4K) Gotta have the quick read write unless you have a CF.
INTERLNK 9,632 (9K) Very important because it allows you to mount other DOS file systems. Even if this is not used at startup, it is handy to have a cable sitting there which will plug into almost any vintage PC at a moment's notice.

A packet driver and both mTCP and WATTCP config files ready to go at all times. WGET, HTGET, FTP, TELNET, SSH, as well as ping, reverse dns, and traceroute, make for a powerful internet suite.

This is how I've been running my computers since about DOS 6 (except mTCP is new) and with a well thought out file system, it's second nature now. In short, most of DOS does not come from MS or IBM, it comes from PC Mag utilities or Simtelnet. I also recommend using BATCHMAN which has about 50 batch commands in a 6K com file - such as sound, pushpath, poppath, and all that good stuff. Also basic UNIX commands should be installed. They're just tiny utilities but give a lot of freedom - particularly the hybrid ones like RN which will rename both files and directories.

The whole approach is that there is nothing to "learn". You just look around for the utilities you like and then make batch files with your own names for stuff. It grows naturally instead of someone telling me what I'm supposed to type or click on, or worse, putting something in a directory where I don't want it to be. If a utility misbehaves, or I don't understand it, out it goes. Try another one. My mother used to get compliments on her house plants, and her secret was simple. She threw out the ones that died, and kept the ones that liked her environment. I'm sure she would have liked DOS.

PS: Don't forget to hit enter. ;)
 
After I wrote the above and reread the posts about cut/paste (which frankly shocked me), I got to thinking. People don't actually just load up the little bit that MS or IBM provide on their disks do they? That wouldn't be much of an OS if they do. I would hope that everyone has their own personal way of doing things. PC mag certainly tried their best to facilitate that.
 
Ole Juul said:
After I wrote the above and reread the posts about cut/paste (which frankly shocked me), I got to thinking. People don't actually just load up the little bit that MS or IBM provide on their disks do they? That wouldn't be much of an OS if they do. I would hope that everyone has their own personal way of doing things. PC mag certainly tried their best to facilitate that.
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Depends on the purpose. Back when I lived only with my DOS machine, I certainly had my suite of personal batch files and utilities to make life easier. These days, when DOS is my toy rather than my sole system, I'm content to predominantly run a default DOS install with my small list of indispensable utilities: List, Softkey Editor (SE), dirdel, ansi.com, PC Tools 8.0, and my game unprotection utilities (as that's mostly what my DOS systems are these days - game machines)

Of course, my specific way of structuring my directories remains the same now as it did then, as does my "give me my menu" command, e.bat, located in my c:\utils directory, which also contains all of my "indispensibles" in addition to my batch files.
 
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