Create disk images from copy protected AppleIIe disks

[magicant]

I have an Apple IIe computer with two disk drives and a super serial card. I have succesfully connected the Apple IIe to my PC using the super serial card and adapters and have been using ADT Pro to transfer my old disks (programs I wrote, etc.) to disk images for use with Applewin on my PC.

I have alot of store bought software as well, many of which are copy protected. I wanted to try and convert these as well for use on my PC with applewin. I read about using SST to pack the disks into two separate disks, transfer those 2 images to the PC, and run SST on the emulator to convert them back to a single image. I followed the instructions in SST exactly but cannot get it to work. When I load the first disk image into the emulator, SST says WRONG DISK. I made sure to turn off fast disk emulation. I also tried using ciderpress to combine the 2 images but that does not work either.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thank you.

 

[magnusfalkirk]

I have an Apple IIe computer with two disk drives and a super serial card. I have succesfully connected the Apple IIe to my PC using the super serial card and adapters and have been using ADT Pro to transfer my old disks (programs I wrote, etc.) to disk images for use with Applewin on my PC.

I have alot of store bought software as well, many of which are copy protected. I wanted to try and convert these as well for use on my PC with applewin. I read about using SST to pack the disks into two separate disks, transfer those 2 images to the PC, and run SST on the emulator to convert them back to a single image. I followed the instructions in SST exactly but cannot get it to work. When I load the first disk image into the emulator, SST says WRONG DISK. I made sure to turn off fast disk emulation. I also tried using ciderpress to combine the 2 images but that does not work either.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thank you.

That's strange as I just used SST to copy the 1987 Team disk for MicroLeague Baseball and didn't have any trouble at all. When you tried to put the images together using SST in the emulator you did press 3 to unpack a disk right? Did you try putting the other side of the disk or the other disk you used into the drive to see if it was the Front.dsk? Beyond those two thoughts there isn't much else I know of, SST is pretty simple. About the only other idea I can think of is to check the speed of your Apple II disk drives, maybe there is something wrong there.

 

[magicant]

Yes to both of your questions.

Below is the exact procedure I used (sorry for the long post) but perhaps you will see something I'm doing wrong:

- I have the APPLE IIe hooked up to my PC via a super serial card / USB adapter.
- I have ProDos ADTPRO on a floppy for the APPLE and as a file on my PC
- I downloaded the SST.DSK file and transferred it to a Dos formatted disk on my Apple using ADTPRO.
- I have the latest version of Applewin emulator on my PC.

APPLE IIe
- Boot up with Dos 3.3 System Master Disk
- Insert double sided blank floppy in drive 2
- Type INIT HELLO,D2 to format disk. Flip side and do same thing.
- Insert Dos 3.3 disk with SST in drive 1 and reboot.
- Select B to BRUN SST
- Select '1' for 'Pirate a Disk'
- Select '2' for 'Pack Disk'
- Use all of the Default settings
START TRACK: 0
END TRACK: 34
STEP: 1
SYNCHRONIZE TRACKS: NO
NIBBLE COUNT: NO
- Message 'Insert BOTH disks" is displayed
- Place copy protected disk in drive 1
(I've tried with more than 1 disk, in this case I tried MUSIC MAKER by SUBLOGIC)
- Place SIDE A of Formatted floppy in drive 2
- Press RETURN.
- At track 17 I'm be prompted to flip the data disk (in drive 2) over
- Turn over disk in Drive 2.
- When the copying is done, transfer both sides of the data disk to disk images
(Call the front of the disk FRONT.DSK and the back BACK.DSK)
- I inserted ADTPRO in drive 1, rebooted and transferred both sides of the Drive 2 disk naming as above.

PC:
- Turned off ENHANCED SPEED in Applewin emulator for disk operation.
- Load the disk image for SST into disk 1 of the emulator.
- Copy the blank.nib image (from SST folder) to different folder and named is MUSIC MAKER.
- Load the MUSIC MAKER.nib image into disk 2 of the emulator.
- Reboot the emulator
- Select 'E' for Copy II+ 5.0 from the boot menu
- Go to Sector Editor
- Select Disk B
- Type the letter 'R' to read a sector
- Type '0' for the Track and '0' for the sector pressing ENTER after each.
- Reboot the emulator
- Select B to BRUN SST
- Choose 'Pirate a Disk'
- Choose '3' to unpack a disk
- Choose '1' for packed parms
- Use all default options
START TRACK: 0
END TRACK: 34
STEP: 1
SYNCHRONIZE TRACKS: NO
NIBBLE COUNT: NO
- When the message 'Insert BOTH disks, then press RETURN' appears,
insert the FRONT.DSK image in drive 1 and press RETURN

- This is where I get the ERROR MESSAGE:
"WRONG DISK!!!! Insert data disk side 1 and press return". I tried inserting my BACK.DSK image but still get same message.


So then I tried to merge the two images using CiderPress
- Run CiderPress
- Choose MERGE SST IMAGE
- Choose FRONT.DSK
- Select:
Sector Ordering: DOS Sector Ordering
FILESYSTEM FORMAT: GENERIC DOS SECTORS
I get the message "THE IMAGE DOESN'T LOOK QUITE RIGHT", etc.

I continue anyway with both images, but the new image I get doesn't boot in the emulator. It just hangs.

I also had read that SST may not work on some computers and a possible fix is to:

1) Boot the Dos 3.3 floppy with SST on it and get to the ] prompt
2) Type: CALL -151
3) Type: BLOAD SST
4) Type: 1F4E:EA
5) Type: BSAVE SST, A$B00, L$5500

I tried this but 1F4E already had the value of EA so there was nothing for me to do.

 

[david__schmidt]

SST is only capable of copying a few very lightly copy-protected titles, but not really that many. And even if SST is in fact successful, you're only able to duplicate the copy protection within the .nib copy.

The more comprehensive solution is to remove the copy protection completely - and that takes a fair amount of skill and experience. One way you can shortcut that a little bit is to find copies of the Hardcore Computist magazine online (there is/was an index at one time) and find an issue that addresses the title you have. They had methods of de-protecting lots (but not all) titles.

So, what you're trying to do may or may not be easy, depending on the copy protection method used - and your particular skill level with the craft. It is by no means an automated process.

 

[magicant]

Thank you both for the responses.
I don't mind if the copy protection remains. I just want to make a dsk image to use on the emulator, but I see what you are saying.
I have many copy programs on the apple and used to make copies of copy protected disks to have backups (and it worked making an exact copy). So you are saying there is no easy way to use any of these, or similar programs, to make an exact copy of a disk but as a dsk image for transfer/use in an emulator?

If not, then I will search as you mentioned. I have also removed copy protection on some programs, in the past, so I was pretty good at figuring that out. But will have to brush up my skills as it has been a while.

I was just hoping for something like adtpro that could make an exact conversion of any disk to a dsk image. But I guess that is not possible.

 

[david__schmidt]

So you are saying there is no easy way to use any of these, or similar programs, to make an exact copy of a disk but as a dsk image for transfer/use in an emulator?

That is precisely what I am saying. There is no deterministic/programmatic way to make an exact copy of an arbitrarily protected disk using the Apple II disk controller as shipped. Note that I've made a very narrow statement just there - it is possible to make some copies. But, as you noticed, not the ones you have...

I was just hoping for something like adtpro that could make an exact conversion of any disk to a dsk image. But I guess that is not possible.

That is exactly so. That's the genius and curse of the Woz software-controlled disk controller.

 

[Olivier]

Note that some people enjoy the cracking challenge, and when that passion is combined with the one to share, then we're all winners... In a less cryptic way, speaking for myself only, I know that if I have a program that I can't find on the Asimov shares, I'll do everything in my power to make sure it becomes part of the community...

 

[Gib]

Seems like every time I think it's impossible to convert copy-protected IIe or IIGS software to run in emulation or from my CFFA card, I find that someone has already converted it. The last time that happened, I mentioned on this forum that I wished I could recapture the fun of playing Who Framed Roger Rabbit with my daughter, and when I next checked the thread there was a link to download it.

What vintage Apple software haven't you found yet in .dsk format?

 

[olePigeon]

I've looked into this. There's a device called a KyroFlux (it's a USB universal disk controller), and it can copy a copyprotected Apple II disk. The problem is that it's heavily Amiga oriented, and no one involved with the project is interested in getting it to work with Apple II disks. Atari, Amiga, and even DOS, but not Apple. *shrug*

 

[magicant]

Thanks. I have been able to find most of the images on FTP sites. I haven't finished going through everything yet so if there is software I can't find I'll let you know. Thanks for the help.