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HP Portable Plus?

smp

smp

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Hi all,

I have an opportunity to maybe acquire another HP system that I have always been interested in playing with, an HP Portable Plus.

Does anyone have any experiences with this system that they would like to share, before I take the plunge?

Thanks, in advance, for your attention.

smp
 
I played with one for a period, back in the 1980s. Heavy bugger, but otherwise okay for an early LCD laptop.

One thing that I do recall is that it used 3 D-sized sealed lead-acid cells arranged in a 6 volt pack. Amazingly, it's still possible to find these (the ones in the 110 that you're looking at are almost certainly dried out/sulfated by now):

dla.jpg
 
Chuck(G) said:
I played with one for a period, back in the 1980s. Heavy bugger, but otherwise okay for an early LCD laptop.

One thing that I do recall is that it used 3 D-sized sealed lead-acid cells arranged in a 6 volt pack. Amazingly, it's still possible to find these (the ones in the 110 that you're looking at are almost certainly dried out/sulfated by now):

dla.jpg
Click to expand...
Are you sure they were original? Mine and its disk drives and printer all use standard rectangular Panasonic LCR-226P 6V 2.4Ah lead-acid batteries (although high-capacity NiMh cells work just as well if not better).

Interesting non-standard I/O ports...
 
Dunno, Mike. I recall the Gates cells were in the one that I used. Could be that they were a replacement.

The 110/Plus was a pretty popular early portable, as I recall. I thought that lead-acid and NiMH cells had mutually incompatible charging requirements.

Regardless, I suspect that any Batteries Plus store can set the OP up with a suitable replacement. Lead-Acid sealed batteries are still used in many UPS units.
 
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Chuck(G) said:
The 110/Plus was a pretty popular early portable, as I recall. I thought that lead-acid and NiMH cells had mutually incompatible charging requirements.
Click to expand...
I don't use it very much and I always keep a bunch of NiMh & NiCd cells charged, so I just put them in when I need them; haven't really looked into how they'd fare with the built-in charger.

Regardless, I suspect that any Batteries Plus store can set the OP up with a suitable replacement. Lead-Acid sealed batteries are still used in many UPS units.
Click to expand...
Yup; same as in my 6V emergency lights, only a little thinner. The only non-stock mod is a little terminal strip glued on to the side that connects to two straps in the battery compartment:

Battery.JPG

@ smp: What would you like to know?
 
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Hello again, all,

Sorry about the delay - I made my post and then was out of the loop for the rest of the weekend.

Thanks very much for your responses!

I see the machine as a somewhat closed system (no surprise for HP). It has internal "floppy disks" in non-volatile memory, and applications in ROM. I have not yet found a definition of the minimum ROM-based applications that a machine could have. Was the minimum something like only Lotus 1-2-3? Was it possible to get a machine without any ROMs? I don't want to be surprised by what I obtain - thinking I will be getting some configuration and then receiving something else.

I also see a number of part numbers: 45711A, B, C, D, E and F. I understand that A&B are for a certain amount of memory, and A has the modem and B does not. I believe the same holds for C&D, and also for E&F. Are there any other differences between the suffixes?

If I were to be purchasing a "refurbished" machine from a reseller, and it has part number 45711F, what should I expect? Do refurbishers bring the machines up to the same definition as it had originally, or will I be in for pot luck?

Finally (for now), how does one go about getting software and programs onto and off of this machine? I see the HP-IL interface, and I know that there was an HP-IL single 3.5" floppy drive that interfaced with HP-IL, but these seem to be pretty rare and command the high price that goes along with that badge. It appears that the machine can interface with the floppy disk drive natively, but it does not appear like there was any programming interface available for doing your own thing with the HP-IL interface.

So much for now. I am hoping that I can get a machine with Lotus 1-2-3 and the Terminal application in ROM, at least. Otherwise than that, I would like to know how else to interface to the machine, perhaps using the RS-232 port.

Thanks, in advance, for your patience and attention.

smp
 
OK!

I've spent a lot of time with the HP Computer Museum (http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=49) and the documentation they have saved there.

I believe that the HP Portable Plus configurations that I mentioned are correct. The computer came with MS-DOS 2.11, a terminal program, and EDLIN all in ROM, but no additional software in ROMs. Apparently Lotus 1-2-3, and whatever other applications were available in ROM, were available as optional add-ons.

So, if the refurbisher lives up to what they say, they would refurbish a 45711F to be a computer with 512K RAM and no modem, right?

Please let me know if I am going wrong with any of these thoughts.

Thanks.

smp
 
OK! I made my offer, and it was accepted.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271222451718?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

I'm very happy to report that I acquired this computer for significantly less that what was being asked in the BIN listing. I love it when the Seller offers the ability to make an offer!

Now, I get to wait until it arrives. I am relying on my experience with HP computers being very reliable. Since I have a "wall wart" that should work with this system, I am very hopeful that it will power up and be functional.

If any of you care to check out the listing, please look at the photo of the ROMs in the ROM drawer. I can see that the high and low ROMs are installed for Lotus 1-2-3, but the other ROM has me concerned. It appears to be a ROM for something called Reflection, which I believe is a terminal program of some sort. BUT there is only one ROM, installed in the high position. Can anyone verify that it is possible to have this work properly? It seems to me that, since the system has a 80C86 for the CPU, and all the ROM positions have a both high and a low position (as expected for full 16 bit data path), two ROMs will be required for any application that is added into the system. I'm thinking that the Reflection application will not be working properly because the low ROM is not installed.

I will post my experiences once I receive my latest treasure.

Thanks for listening...

smp
 
Hello again all,

I received my HP Portable Plus on the evening prior to Thanksgiving, so I did not have very much time to play with it prior to the holiday weekend closing in on me.

The great news is that I was able to jury-rig the HP 82059A charger that I have to find out that the computer is in fact operational. YAY! I expected this would be true, but one never knows for sure. I now have an HP 82059D charger on the way to me, so I won't have to be playing around with jumper cables for too much longer, and I also will not have to modify the HP 82059A that I use with my HP-71B either.

Before powering up the system, I removed the software drawer and verified that it contained Lotus 1-2-3, and Reflection (a HP terminal emulator) in ROM, just as was shown in the auction listing. I also removed the memory drawer and got my first big surprise - it had a label on it indicating that it was a 384K memory drawer! Combined with the base 128K that is indicated by the computer part number (45711B), that would add up to a 512K machine! Again, YAY!

So, the machine powers up just fine, and it shows me that it has 896K memory, by default split as 80K for the OS and 816K (or there about) for the e-disk. This is another great surprise, and also a bit of a mystery for me. As I noted before, I was expecting to have a 512K machine, so I am wondering where the extra 384K comes from? Certainly, I won't be complaining about this, but all that I have read says that when one has one each of the memory and software drawers, the machine should max out at 512K (128K base plus 384K in the memory drawer) and 12 ROMs of either 32K or 128K variety.

The only thing that I can think of is that, despite the part number printed on the belly of the machine (45711B), somehow it became a 512K base machine (which should have PN 47511F). Then, with the additional 384K in the memory drawer, the total would add up to 896K.

I suppose that the next time I play around with the machine, I could remove the memory drawer first, and verify that it then powers up indicating 512K, split up as 80K for the OS and 432K for the e-disk.

Oh, yeah, and one of these days I'll have to look into getting a replacement battery for it, too.

That's all for now. I'll keep posting my experiences as they occur.

smp
 
I must confess that I know very little about these machines so I'm just guessing, but maybe the ROMs are included in the disk size? Can you actually see the individual ROM files?

Mine just has 128K internal plus a 384K RAM drawer, with the ROM drawer completely empty. The default RAM/DISK memory split is 80/432K and can be set from 80/432K to 504/8K; by default it reports 437760 bytes free on 'drive A:' and 53472 bytes free out of 81920 bytes total memory.
 
Hello again.

I have been playing around with my HP Portable Plus, and here are a couple of things that I've found:

I tried to remove the Memory Drawer and start up the machine to determine the amount of memory installed on the base machine, but the computer will not start up without the Memory Drawer installed.

So, since the computer indicated 80K system RAM and 828928 RAM on disk A:, and I have a 384K Memory Drawer, I am assuming that the base system has 512K RAM installed, even though the serial number indicates that it should be a 128K base system.

Moving on, I tried out the DOS terminal program (TERM). I attached a 9 pin male to 9 pin female RS-232 cable between the HP system, and the Dell laptop that I normally use as the terminal attached to my PDP-11/23. I ran Hyper-Terminal on my Dell laptop, just like I always do (it's set for 9600 bps, no parity, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit), and I set the serial port settings on the HP system to match.

The good news: Everything that I type on the HP system shows up just fine on the Dell laptop Hyper-Terminal.

The bad news: Nothing that I type on the Dell Laptop in Hyper-Terminal shows up on the HP system.

BAH!

I have tried everything that I can think of. I have the HP system users manual and I have tried and re-tried all the settings. The fact that I have a good path from the HP system to the Dell Hyper-Terminal tells me that I am wired up correctly. But, nothing that I have tried makes anything come through on the HP system side.

Just for completeness, I also tried the Reflection program that this HP system has in ROM. At first it did not work at all, simply bombing back to the OS on the HP system. I read the manual for that and found that it needs 256K of system memory, so I reconfigured the HP system for 512K system memory and 384K for the electronic disk. Then the Reflection program started up properly - but I get the same results as I did with the TERM program. All that I type on the HP system shows up on the Dell laptop running Hyper-Terminal just fine. Nothing that I type on the Dell running Hyper-Terminal shows up on the Hp system.

Double BAH!

I am coming to the conclusion that the HP system may be broken on the serial I/O receive side.

Does anyone out there have any thoughts or ideas to offer?

Thanks!

smp
 
It wouldn't be an uncommon thing for the RS232C line receiver to be a casualty of an ESD incident. You should be able to replace the chip without too much trouble.

A sanity check is to create a "loopback" connector. 2-3 4-5 and 6-8-20 connected together on a 25-position D-sub. Everything you enter on the keyboard via a terminal program should be echoed.
 
Chuck(G) said:
It wouldn't be an uncommon thing for the RS232C line receiver to be a casualty of an ESD incident. You should be able to replace the chip without too much trouble.

A sanity check is to create a "loopback" connector. 2-3 4-5 and 6-8-20 connected together on a 25-position D-sub. Everything you enter on the keyboard via a terminal program should be echoed.
Click to expand...

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for your response.

The HP 110+ has RS-232 I/O on a 9 pin D-type connector like so:

1 - DTR
2 - Transmitted Data Output
3 - Received Data Input
4 - RTS
5 - CTS
6 - DSR
7 - Ground
8 - Receive Line Signal Detect
9 - Ring Detect

So, by your instructions on this connector I would connect 2-3, 4-5 and 6-8-1, right?

Thanks again!

smp
 
Hi again, Chuck. Thanks for the confirmation on my last question.

Chuck(G) said:
It wouldn't be an uncommon thing for the RS232C line receiver to be a casualty of an ESD incident. You should be able to replace the chip without too much trouble.
Click to expand...

So in the Technical Reference Manual, I found the schematics, and it appears that the incoming data (RXD) comes in on pin 3 of the 9 pin D-type connector, then proceeds through a voltage divider and then through a 74HC14 schmitt-trigger inverter gate, then on to what appears to be a custom HP device of some kind.

All of the incoming RS-232 signals go through the gates on this one chip, so I am assuming that I would be looking to possibly replace the 74HC14. Right?

Since I have not attempted to disassemble the system, I'm not certain how big of a job it will be to get to the motherboard and perform this replacement.

smp
 
MikeS said:
I don't use it very much and I always keep a bunch of NiMh & NiCd cells charged, so I just put them in when I need them; haven't really looked into how they'd fare with the built-in charger.

Yup; same as in my 6V emergency lights, only a little thinner. The only non-stock mod is a little terminal strip glued on to the side that connects to two straps in the battery compartment:

View attachment 16001

@ smp: What would you like to know?
Click to expand...

My system came with no battery. I see the two screw terminals inside the battery compartment, that I need to attach to.

I found this place has a replacement battery:

http://www.apexbattery.com/panasoni...-lead-acid-batteries-panasonic-batteries.html

And, it is about half the price of any of the other places I found.

Am I on the right track with this?

smp
 
Interesting that a standard EIA receiver isn't used. No diode before the 74HC14? EIA lines (at the time that your HP110 was new) could have up to +/- 30V on them. Is the schematic online?
 
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smp said:
My system came with no battery. I see the two screw terminals inside the battery compartment, that I need to attach to.

I found this place has a replacement battery:

http://www.apexbattery.com/panasoni...-lead-acid-batteries-panasonic-batteries.html

And, it is about half the price of any of the other places I found.

Am I on the right track with this?

smp
Click to expand...
If you have the little adapter board with the actual terminal screws then yes, you should be in business. My system and printer both use a Panasonic LCR-226P which that battery apparently replaces; assuming the dimensions are the same the only apparent difference is a slightly higher capacity and the terminals are oriented differently, but that shouldn't be a problem.

FWIW, the disk drives use a different battery (with the same adapter), containing six C size NiCds with just a few passive components, so I wonder if you would actually have any serious issues using NiCds or NiMhs in the system with the adapter plugged in instead of lead-acid...

Did I mention that I hadn't spent much time with this computer? Of course it has a serial port; I was thinking of the optional modem. I'll try to connect to another computer later today and see how mine works.
 
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