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Need a formatted C-64/128 floppy

geoffm3

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Oct 9, 2009
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Hey guys,

I'm having some issues with a newly acquired Commodore 128D's floppy drive. It will not format and I'm unsure if the issue is with writing or reading the disk, and I have no pre-formatted disks to test it with anymore. Could some kind soul out there send me a disk with some software on it?
 
In 128 mode enter this command

header "mydisknamehere", d0,i01 [return]

It will say "are you sure?" answer Y

WHen done, type

directory [return]

If that does not work, and you don't see an empty directory, i.e. you get an error message then check the RPMs of the disk drive and/or align the dirve. Easier said than done, but that's what is most likely the issue.

Bill
 
What Stone said....clean heads first. However, the biggest problem I have ever had with the 1571 drive, either inside the 128D or externally, is the little arm that goes down and puts pressure on the disk. See the arrow in the pic I am attaching. Push down lightly on that arm. If it moves at all, try formatting your disk again, and I bet it will work fine. If not, I will also be happy to send you some test disks.

pic10.jpg

If this fixes the issue, there's a more permanent fix that I've used several times, and I can relate that here.
 
What Stone said....clean heads first. However, the biggest problem I have ever had with the 1571 drive, either inside the 128D or externally, is the little arm that goes down and puts pressure on the disk. See the arrow in the pic I am attaching. Push down lightly on that arm. If it moves at all, try formatting your disk again, and I bet it will work fine. If not, I will also be happy to send you some test disks.

View attachment 21528

If this fixes the issue, there's a more permanent fix that I've used several times, and I can relate that here.

Hmm... I'll have to check that.

I'd already cleaned the drive's heads and checked the head tensioning spring and mounts and that all looked good. I attempted to format it using the old open 15,8,15; print#15,"n0:test" command, rather than the C-128 header command billdeg mentioned (I couldn't remember that one at the time). The behavior led me to believe it simply wasn't going to work, as the drive danced the head around for about a second and then gave up and started flashing the drive activity light.
 
One of the easiest drives to align is the 1571.

You need to teach me, Bill. I usually use the Free Spirit Alignment Disk, and it hasn't worked properly on two 1571's I've tried. It initializes to track 18, but then when you step up or down it shows you're on the wrong track. Very strange...I thought the drive I was aligning was bad, so I tried it on a different drive and got the same symptom.

What do you use?
 
geoffm3: Alignment is not your problem. Read-write-verify is failing.

I agree. I never suspected alignment as I have no pre-formatted media to try, so alignment shouldn't really matter for the purposes of my test, as disks formatted with a drive out of alignment should always read back properly on the drive they were created on. Hence my desire for a pre-formatted disk. At least that would eliminate the ability to read.
 
I agree. I never suspected alignment as I have no pre-formatted media to try, so alignment shouldn't really matter for the purposes of my test, as disks formatted with a drive out of alignment should always read back properly on the drive they were created on. Hence my desire for a pre-formatted disk. At least that would eliminate the ability to read.

Very true. I apologise for my short, undetailed response before. I was using my phone which was not cooperating. But, I think you and I are on the same page anyway.

What it sounds like is happening is: The head positions to track 18, writes the directory, reads it back, determines it's not correct, and repositions the head and tries again. You should be able to verify this by watching the head position with the drive apart whilst it is formatting. The only reason to do this is this: If the alignment really is off far enough, it's very remotely possible for track 18 to format correctly, but track 1 to fail.

Also, when the drive activity light is flashing, the command channel contains an error message. In '128 mode, you can type ?DS;DS$ to read the error number and message. However, it's important in this case to get the track and sector of the error, which cannot be done so simply. If you do this the old fashioned way, you can get that information. You'll have to write a short program to do it:
1 OPEN15,8,15
2 INPUT#15,A,B$,C,D
3 PRINTA;B$C;D
4 CLOSE15

You will probably see
21 READ ERROR 18 0
The 18 and 0 are track 18 and sector 0. This confirms that the drive is unable to format the first sector of the directory track, which rules out severe misalignment. It doesn't totally rule out incorrect hub speed, but I'd suspect a read/write error first.
If you get an error number besides 21, please let us know. There are several different read errors you can get, but I don't recall how to determine what each one means. It may be possible to determine that something was written and actually read back, but scrambled. That could mean a speed error rather than a lack of read/write. If the disk is spinning too slowly, the beginning of the track will be over-written with the end of it, maybe. That assumes the whole track is written at once, and I'm not sure that it is. I used to know all about the interleave and how the drive works, but I seem to have forgotten most of that!
 
Very true. I apologise for my short, undetailed response before. I was using my phone which was not cooperating. But, I think you and I are on the same page anyway.

What it sounds like is happening is: The head positions to track 18, writes the directory, reads it back, determines it's not correct, and repositions the head and tries again. You should be able to verify this by watching the head position with the drive apart whilst it is formatting. The only reason to do this is this: If the alignment really is off far enough, it's very remotely possible for track 18 to format correctly, but track 1 to fail.

Also, when the drive activity light is flashing, the command channel contains an error message. In '128 mode, you can type ?DS;DS$ to read the error number and message. However, it's important in this case to get the track and sector of the error, which cannot be done so simply. If you do this the old fashioned way, you can get that information. You'll have to write a short program to do it:
1 OPEN15,8,15
2 INPUT#15,A,B$,C,D
3 PRINTA;B$C;D
4 CLOSE15

You will probably see
21 READ ERROR 18 0
The 18 and 0 are track 18 and sector 0. This confirms that the drive is unable to format the first sector of the directory track, which rules out severe misalignment. It doesn't totally rule out incorrect hub speed, but I'd suspect a read/write error first.
If you get an error number besides 21, please let us know. There are several different read errors you can get, but I don't recall how to determine what each one means. It may be possible to determine that something was written and actually read back, but scrambled. That could mean a speed error rather than a lack of read/write. If the disk is spinning too slowly, the beginning of the track will be over-written with the end of it, maybe. That assumes the whole track is written at once, and I'm not sure that it is. I used to know all about the interleave and how the drive works, but I seem to have forgotten most of that!

Okay, I tried the above after doing both a header command and the older print#15,"n0,test,66" command and I got the same thing in both cases:

20 READ ERROR 0 0

One thing that might be an issue. When the head is dancing around after turning the computer on and no disk is in the drive, I can hear it slightly bang the head stop. So I wonder if your thinking that it might be grossly out of alignment could be a possibility.
 
Okay, I tried the above after doing both a header command and the older print#15,"n0,test,66" command and I got the same thing in both cases:

20 READ ERROR 0 0

One thing that might be an issue. When the head is dancing around after turning the computer on and no disk is in the drive, I can hear it slightly bang the head stop. So I wonder if your thinking that it might be grossly out of alignment could be a possibility.

Oh yeah, one other piece of info. I have tried just putting in an MFM formatted floppy (formatted on an Epson QX-10) and the behavior is somewhat different than when there is no disk in the drive. So I assume that's either because it's reading actual data from the disk or it is seeing the index pulses from the index sensor.
 
You need to teach me, Bill. I usually use the Free Spirit Alignment Disk, and it hasn't worked properly on two 1571's I've tried. It initializes to track 18, but then when you step up or down it shows you're on the wrong track. Very strange...I thought the drive I was aligning was bad, so I tried it on a different drive and got the same symptom.

What do you use?

My notes related to the internal drive of the c128D, but I suppose "alignment" is not really what I was doing, it's the relationship where everythingn is working together:
http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=519
 
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