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Kaypro revisited, help requested

clh333

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
1,443
Location
Cleveland, OH, USA
In 1982 I purchased a Kaypro II from a local typewriter shop that was expanding into computers and printers. I made the purchase for the purpose of expediting billing for my fledgling business, and used it for a few years before selling it and moving on to MS-DOS based systems. I would have loved to experiment with the machine - I subscribed to Micro Cornucopia and bought software and hardware accessories - but could not afford the time and did not have the expertise to carry out any modifications. The computer was a tool, and when a better one became available I obtained that as a replacement.

I did however teach myself to program on the K-II machine, out of dissatisfaction with the software available at the time, and ultimately that led to a career in database IT. When I sold the Kaypro I retained the disks, manuals and peripherals, which have been in storage for decades. Lately with equal parts guilt and curiosity I dug them out to see what remained of them. The manuals are fine, the Silver-Reed daisy-wheels are still operable, the disks however are unreadable with anything I have now at hand (TEAC 55 FGR on an XP machine with a late-90s Award BIOS).

So I went looking on eBay for a Kaypro, and obtained a Kaypro 4. That is the reason for this post: The machine has a problem that appears to be common with old Kaypros, but difficult to diagnose. It powers on but does not boot; the LED lights but the screen is filled with garbage characters, some of which vary over time and some of which are fixed.

I looked on line and found a Kaypro TSM, and in the problem / fix section for this machine (full-height Tandons and only one serial port, no modem) three options were presented: Reset switch grounded to case, reset switch harness grounding or damaged, or motherboard needs replacing. Hoping for a reset switch I took the cover off.

The machine had at some time been modified with an Advent Turbo Board, a daughter board that replaced the CPU with extra circuitry allowing switch-selectable. A Z80B processor was on the board, which unfortunately was not in the CPU socket. The pins of the Advent board had been bent and in some cases broken off.

After removing the Advent board, switch and jumper I pried out the Z80B and socketed it in the motherboard. Same result. I removed the reset switch from the chassis; same result. I disconnected the harness from the mobo; same result. I checked the power supply, verifying the 5 and 12-volt pins, which were good. I had a spare Z80B CPU in a bug-box, and replaced the CPU with that; same result. Back to the Internet.

I found a post by someone who had solved this problem, tracing it to a bad socket for a memory chip. I looked at the sockets and all seemed fine. The machine was very dusty but did not seem corroded. Now what?

I have these options: I can replace each chip on the board one by one until something works (assuming I can find them; some gated arrays were custom to Kaypro, it seems); I can try to find a replacement board (probably means buying another Kaypro); I can try to find a technician who can work on this one (not hopeful for that outcome); or I can post a plea for assistance on vintage-computer.com. I figured I would try this first.

Before posting I read the other threads on the CP/M forum; I did not find the solution but forgive me if I overlooked something. I would be very grateful for any suggestions for solving this problem.

Thanks
Charles Hudson
clh333
 

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Charles are the RAM chips socketed? If so, it would be worth swapping them out one at a time with a known good RAM chip. A fault in RAM can give you the garbage screen you describe. Unfortunately, so can other things like failed logic chips on the data or address lines. These faults can be really hard to track down.

Tez
 
Charles are the RAM chips socketed? If so, it would be worth swapping them out one at a time with a known good RAM chip. A fault in RAM can give you the garbage screen you describe. Unfortunately, so can other things like failed logic chips on the data or address lines. These faults can be really hard to track down.

Tez

Thank you for your suggestion.

All chips on board appear to be socketed. I will try to find MCM6665 for DRAM and 2114 for SRAM and let you know what I find.

-CH-
 
this could be an interesting one. You should try replacing the BIOS with the standard stock chip. If you have an eprom burner the code is available. If you reverse engineer taking the advent board off you may find the problem. I would also check the character rom and make sure it's the correct one and that it's fully seated. Even though the voltages appear correct on the power supply you could also have a problem there. Since you're in the area you might want to give it a visual inspection - looking for bad capacitors.
I have a fairly good collection of Kaypro's but i don't have a 4 but I think the model you describe is similar to the later model II's.
 
Charles,
Do you have access to an O'Scope and are familiar with using one?

The good thing is you have Video, even though it's not what you are expecting. That's a good sign!

I'd suggest starting with the CLK signal on Z80 Pin 6 to make sure it's working. Then on to the CONRTOL SIGNALS that are INPUTS to the to the Z80 CPU.
I've attached a Photo of those signals as grouped by the Z80 Documentation. The following signals should be HIGH (typical) unless something is holding
them LOW. RESET Pin 26, NMI Pin 17, INT Pin 16, WAIT Pin 24, & BUSREQ Pin 25. When you depress the RESET Button the Signal at Pin 26 of
the Z80 CPU should toggle LOW and then go back HIGH, resetting the Z80 CPU (assuming the clock is running and makes about six clocks ticks, and
the RESET Circuit is being PULLED UP to the +5 VDC Power rail, by the associated PULLUP Resistor). ANY of these Signals that are HELD LOW is
a problem that needs further research.

Z80-1.jpg

If those all check out good, then it's likely something fiddling with the ADDRESS Lines, or the DATA Lines. The ADDRESS Lines are easy to check
with a bit of wirewrap wire and an extra IC Socket.

The DATA Lines will be a challenge, because you will need an In Circuit Emulator (ICE) or a Z80 Board Excerciser to be able to probe Memory etc.

That will give you enough information to get started.

What Is the Motherboard Series?

Kaypro II 81-110-n 81-240-n
Kaypro 2/84 or 2x 81-294-n
Kaypro 4 81-240-n
Kaypro 4/84 81-184-n
Kaypro 4X 81-296-n
Kaypro 10 81-180-n
Kaypro Robie 81-296-n

What is the number on the label of your EPROMS?
2/83 81-149-C 81-232-A
4/83 81-232-A
4/83 + 88 81-232-A
2/84 81-292-A
4/84 81-292-A
4/84 + 88 81-292-A
2x 81-292-A
4x 81-326-E
Robie 81-326-E


Where are you located? if you are not in a big hurry, I might be willing to look at your Motherboard. I've got a Kaypro II that is functional.

I had the same type problem with a TRS-80 Model 4 a while back.

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?43940-Model-4-died-this-morning

PM me with email address.

Larry
 
Last edited:
this could be an interesting one. You should try replacing the BIOS with the standard stock chip. If you have an eprom burner the code is available. If you reverse engineer taking the advent board off you may find the problem. I would also check the character rom and make sure it's the correct one and that it's fully seated. Even though the voltages appear correct on the power supply you could also have a problem there. Since you're in the area you might want to give it a visual inspection - looking for bad capacitors.
I have a fairly good collection of Kaypro's but i don't have a 4 but I think the model you describe is similar to the later model II's.

Thank you for your reply and for your suggestions.

The Kaypro 4 appears to be similar to the Kaypro II except for the boot EPROM, which is numbered 81-232, hand lettered on the sticker over the chip window. I do not have an EEPROM burner, do not know what PROM to use or where to find one, don't want to uncover the window (to read the chip number) for fear of erasing its contents and don't know where the download of the BIOS code is located. That's not to say I wouldn't try replacing the EPROM, just that it will be one of the last things I investigate after eliminating other possibilities. It could take me a month to work through that problem 'cuz I don't know what I'm doing...

I have ordered RAM and Zilog chips, and will replace those first. I will also examine the power supply for signs of bad caps, and keep you posted with what I find.

-CH-
 
Thank you for your reply and your suggestions.

Answers to your questions are in RED below:

Charles,
Do you have access to an O'Scope and are familiar with using one?

Scope: Yes, a Leader 502. No test probes, however, and I've never used it (or any scope, for that matter.) I do have a "how to" book, though...

What Is the Motherboard Series?

Kaypro II 81-110-n 81-240-n
Kaypro 2/84 or 2x 81-294-n
Kaypro 4 81-240-n
Kaypro 4/84 81-184-n
Kaypro 4X 81-296-n
Kaypro 10 81-180-n
Kaypro Robie 81-296-n

Mobo: Board says "PC 81-240"

What is the number on the label of your EPROMS?
2/83 81-149-C 81-232-A
4/83 81-232-A
4/83 + 88 81-232-A
2/84 81-292-A
4/84 81-292-A
4/84 + 88 81-292-A
2x 81-292-A
4x 81-326-E
Robie 81-326-E

ROMs: Character ROM U43 labeled "81-146", typewritten in black ink.
Boot ROM U47 labeled "81232", hand-written in red ink.
All of the above makes me suspect one or both may not be OEM.


Where are you located? if you are not in a big hurry, I might be willing to look at your Motherboard. I've got a Kaypro II that is functional.

Loc: Cleveland, Ohio


Larry

See attached photo for more details.

-CH-
 

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Charles,
Send me a Private Message with your email address.

Thanks.

Larry

Perhaps due to NOOB status, I am unable to send a private message.

Meanwhile:

I have taken the path of replacing all chips, since they are socketed. The only ones I have not yet obtained are the ROMs.

I did locate the ROM binaries, but I'm not sure what chips to load them onto or which PROM burner will do the job. It may be more expedient to find someone with the equipment and knowledge to perform this task for me.

-CH-
 
The character ROM looks standard the boot rom is not. If push comes to shove I can burn you one but there are probably people closer to you (I am in California). I think there may be some modifications to some of the other chips - like a pin bent out and a jumper etc etc.
 
Charles,
If you login, then go to Settings, then General Settings, you can verify if you have PM's enabled.


Larry
 
Charles,
If you login, then go to Settings, then General Settings, you can verify if you have PM's enabled.


Larry

I must be missing something. Screen shot of my General Settings page: Except for vCard, everything is enabled.

-CH-
 

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The character ROM looks standard the boot rom is not. If push comes to shove I can burn you one but there are probably people closer to you (I am in California). I think there may be some modifications to some of the other chips - like a pin bent out and a jumper etc etc.

Thank you for your offer; I may have to take you up on it if nothing else pans out.

The Advent board with its bent pins is removed, along with its jumper and switch. There was no other evidence of tampering, apart from the suspect boot ROM, but I will know more once I begin replacing chips. I'm guessing the boot ROM came from Micro Cornucopia.

It may also be that over time oxidation has added resistance to one or more of the pins / sockets. I guess if I were really conscientious I could unseat and re-seat each chip in turn and see if it made a difference. But I'm going to replace the chips anyway on the assumption that one or more was damaged by the seller - who admitted knowing nothing about computers. They may have soaked it in water for all I know.

Thanks again for your reply.
-CH-
 
Making slow progress but still working on the project. Does anyone have an idea why I am unable to use the PM feature? Who should I contact for permission? NoDice.jpg

-CH-
 
Just continue to write posts here; as soon as you are above "newbie" treshold (whatever that might be) PM and other features will magically start to work.
Oh, and this is documented in the sticky posts that everyone is supposed to read :)
 
I just went through a fit with my Kaypro II refusing to properly access the B drive. Sometimes it would hang with both
lights lit. Your symptom is different, it appears that the video circuitry is working but the Z80 side is not-
so the video ram is loaded with its power on garbage and never cleared by the CPU.
Anyway, YES you should reset all the chips. It turns out that fixed my problem tonight. The 40 pin ICs
were all corroded with a black tarnish. I even lightly filed them to shine them up before reseating them.
Try that first, I strongly recommend. Connections are fundamental.
 
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