• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Installing Win98 - Need Completely Empty HDs?

G

Grandcheapskate

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
808
Location
New Jersey, USA
Hi Guys,
I am installing Win98 onto a machine which used to have DOS. I formatted the C drive (using Win98 software) but left data on all the logical drives. I boot off a Win98 diskette and then run the SETUP program from the full install CD. The OS starts to load then I get a message telling me an operating system already exists and I need to use a Win98 update CD.

Since there is a blank C drive and no OS files on the other logical drives, my only conclusion is a Win98 full install CD wants every defined drive to be completely empty. Is that true? If not, what else could it be?

Update:
Just for fun I decided to try using the Win98 Upgrade CD even though there is no OS currently on the C drive. It seems to be working. Very interesting. It appears I can upgrade without an existing OS on the hard drive.

Also interesting: it choose the default OS location as the D:\Windows, not C:\Windows.

Thanks...Joe
 
Last edited:
You need to check your partition table. You'll likely find something you didn't expect. FWIW, an OS is only three files, two of which are hidden.
 
Hello Joe.

Granted you posted an "Update" my comments from the peanut gallery below . . .

Since you have a partition formatted as drive C I would put an OS on that partition. I favor using DOS (IBM or MS-DOS). If there's enough space on this partition then Win98 will install and it doesn't care what are on the other partitions. They are extended partitions so they will be left alone. If they're either HPFS or NTFS then DOS will not see them. You may be forced to dump the data from those extended partitions and then recreate them using the fdisk pgm and then use them with DOS or Win98.

Re: boot from a Win98 diskette and the OS starts saying an OS already exists may mean it's trying to install Win98 on the boot media.

Does Win98 require all partitions be empty? Neh not really but the file system types cannot be anything other than FAT16. If they're HPFS for NTFS then nope Win98 cannot see them.
 
My usual to install Win98SE from a CD-ROM is to get a Win98-formatted system floppy with FDISK and FORMAT on it, as well as any CD drivers and MSCDEX.EXE. Set up CONFIG.SYS appropriately, use FDISK to partition the hard disk, making sure to have the C: partition active. Reboot, do a FORMAT /S C:, then copy all the files from the floppy to the C: drive. Insert your CD, remove the floppy and reboot. Run the CD setup from the hard disk.

Never fails.
 
I got Win98SE loaded just fine using the upgrade CD, but it's still a very weird series of events. Here's the sequence:

1. Two hard drives. Master drive contains an active primary C partition with DOS 6.20 and an extended partition with three logical drives all formatted and some with data. The slave drive is one large extended partition with four logical drives. All partitions were created by DOS and therefore are FAT16.

2. Boot the machine using a Win98 diskette which also contains some utilities (such as FDISK). Because DOS is still on the C drive, during the floppy boot I get some warning about compressed drives not working. I assume Win98 is complaining because it sees a DOS operating system. But the boot process continues and I get the A prompt.

3. Using the utilities on the floppy, I format the C drive. All other drives are left intact.

4. I start the SETUP program from the WIN98 full install CD and after some preliminary screens I get the message I cannot use this CD because an operating system already exists and I need to use the upgrade CD.

5. I repeat steps 3 and 4 with the same result.

6. I repeat step 3 and try running the SETUP program from the Win98 upgrade CD. All goes smoothly. The only odd thing is the default drive for installation is proposed as D:\Windows rather than C:\Windows. But I changed it to C:\Windows and that's where it got installed.

So apparently even without an OS installed, the Win98 full installation CD will not work if any of the other drives have data. And conversely, the upgrade will work even if no prior operating system is installed as long as some drives have data.

How about that?

Joe
 
You probably have *something* on the D: drive that it identifies as a previous version of DOS or Windows. Perhaps a copy of command.com, hidden msdos.sys or IO.sys files, or a copy of win.com. I don't remember the full list of files it searches for off hand. The drives don't have to be totally blank, but if I recall correctly it searches the entire directory hierarchy for these files.

The OEM version refuses to install if an existing OS is present, and the upgrade refuses to install if a qualifying existing OS is not present - that is by design. The typical workaround is to place/remove the files it is looking for or modify the setupex.dll.
 
SomeGuy said:
You probably have *something* on the D: drive that it identifies as a previous version of DOS or Windows. Perhaps a copy of command.com, hidden msdos.sys or IO.sys files, or a copy of win.com. I don't remember the full list of files it searches for off hand. The drives don't have to be totally blank, but if I recall correctly it searches the entire directory hierarchy for these files.

The OEM version refuses to install if an existing OS is present, and the upgrade refuses to install if a qualifying existing OS is not present - that is by design. The typical workaround is to place/remove the files it is looking for or modify the setupex.dll.
Click to expand...

At 4am this morning it hit me. The D drive contains the full Windows 3.1 directory. This must be why the full install sees an OS (despite the fact Windows 3.1 by itself is useless) and the upgrade thinks an OS is there. It also explains why the installation defaults to D:\Windows as that is where I have my Windows 3.1 files.

Thanks guys. Another DOH! on my part.

Joe
 
FAT32 was introduced starting with OSR2/WIN95B which preceded WIN98. OSR2 and WIN98 support both FAT16 and FAT32. I believe FDISK identifies FAT32 with something like ...'enable large disk support' or something to that effect which allows partition sizes > 2 GB.
 
Question to both Chuck(G) and Joe.

Using he Win98SE boot diskette and when using fdisk, does this make it 32bit? I recently did a Win98Se install and THOUGHT it was native 32bit but I checked and saw it was FAT16 not FAT32. Stone mentioned this, but my brain said "wait a minute; mine is FAT16." SO I had to check and saw it's supposed to be native FAT32.

I also thought Win95 is a hybrid 16/32bit and Win98 was 32bit . . .

If using a Win98Se boot diskette and its fdisk makes it FAT32 then I'll start mine over.

Thanks
 
I remember choosing the large disk support; I thought FAT16 supports up to 2gb parts. It's been several months since I did this and cannot remember if I used DOS fdisk or Win98 fdisk.
 
Win98 will run with either FAT16 or FAT32 and format disks either way. For partitions with 512MB to 2GB, there is a poorly worded prompt that determines which format is used. Should you make a mistake and get a large FAT16 partition, the full Win98 package includes a utility to convert that partition to FAT32. Run Defrag after conversion because there will be a lot of isolated free clusters created.

See
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/221829
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/180134

There is a flaw in the Win98 and Win98SE implementation that fails with 64GB (or larger) hard drives. There was a fix but I don't think it can be downloaded from MS anymore.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/263044
 
Stone said:
Not quite... it was introduced with OSR2/WIN95b so the original WIN95 release did not use the 32-bit architecture.
Click to expand...

Win95 was a mixture of 32-bit and 16-bit compiled sections. Even Win 3 had 32-bit parts for tasks like swap file. FAT32 does not need 32-bit code anymore than FAT12 required 12-bit code.
 
Stone said:
Not quite... it was introduced with OSR2/WIN95b so the original WIN95 release did not use the 32-bit architecture.
Click to expand...
Tell MS that then. Reading the back of the Windows 95 box "32 bit pre-emptive multitasking"

On the leaflet inside the package in the table on the back page "Performance Features" under For More possibilties- "32-bit preemtive multitasking and multithreading"

To quote SomeGuy:

SomeGuy said:
Windows 95, 98 and ME all use the same "hybrid" 16/32bit architecture built on top of the DOS/Windows 3.x code base.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
krebizfan said:
There is a flaw in the Win98 and Win98SE implementation that fails with 64GB (or larger) hard drives. There was a fix but I don't think it can be downloaded from MS anymore.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/263044
Click to expand...
It's included in the unofficial fixpack I believe.

I learnt a few weeks back there is a Freedos kernal implimentation that has Fat32 support which could be used on 286 systems.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top