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Cromemco JS-1 Joystick Replica

I think I'll go with this style amplifier. As long as I'm adding it, I may as well make volume control convenient by incorporating a knob (hidden in the back). I don't think it'll look out of place or anything.. I'll just remove the barrel connector and solder input wires directly.

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This is the speaker in mine, I can't make out the numbers on one side.

Manual does show 45 ohm.20240415_161835.jpg

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Hmm considering how loud the VCF event is, I really want people to at least be able to hear the game sounds.. As much as I don't want to deviate from the "as original as possible" goal, maybe in this area it's worth going the amplified route.. I like the simplicity of that LM386 module that Hugo shared.

That same seller has a Quam 23A05Z8 2"x 3" 8-10 ohm speaker that would certainly fit in the Hammond case.

The modification I suggested with the transistor, going away from the emitter follower they had and wiring it as a common emitter amplifier, will work and increase the volume, if you simply put the 45 Ohm speaker (without a matching transformer) in as the collector load for the 2N3904 and not use the matching transformer (which is only required for the low Z speaker case). In this configuration, the transistor adds significant gain, and you may need to put an attenuator (just a series resistor) with the 10uF input coupling cap to lower the gain, or place a resistor in series with the 470uF emitter bypass cap will lower the gain. This is probably closer to the original than adding an IC amplifier module inside the unit.
 
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The plot thickness. Note the different schematics - the one above is from the manual I linked to where it is a 100 ohm and the transformer is connected to -5

Do you know the date on that manual? Mine is 1977.
 
Do you know the date on that manual? Mine is 1977.
I don't see a date on the manual that I linked to, nor anything date on the pics in the folder https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/010-S100 Computers and Boards/00-Cromemco/30-Non-Disk IO Devices/JS-1 Joystick/

There is a joystick console https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/010-S100 Computers and Boards/00-Cromemco/30-Non-Disk IO Devices/Joystick Console/Cromemco_Joystick_Console.pdf that seems like it has a similar schematic as the one you posted, but it is not marked as a JS-1 on the cover, but IS referred to as a JS-1 in the text- check it out. It has a 1978 date.

So, maybe the console version is the one with the 45 ohm and the non-console one is the earlier version with the 100 ohm. The kit posted in the thread is clearly the Console version manual.

Sound about right or ?

edited to add. The manual I linked to (with the 100 ohm) offers some games on paper tape for $15. The later manual, for the console version with 45 ohm speaker and the 1978 date, offers games on 5/8 inch disk for $95.

Also, the port address are completely different, e.g., the 100ohm version lists the speaker port at 33 while the console version lists it at 1b - the inputs are at different ports as well.

Seems like the one with the 100 ohm schematic is the original and the console with the 45 ohm is a newer version....and both are called JS-1.
 
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That's great, thanks but I already purchased that lot (of 12) 45 ohm speakers. If it turns out they're under-powered, then I'll definitely upgrade that part of the circuit. I'll have extras in case anyone needs a pair. Trying to stick as close to the original as possible, even though I know it has some downsides. If you could help me find a 2N3904 with the best characteristics, that would be greatly appreciated.

Also here's a pretty great find! Someone on eBay selling vintage Cherry keycaps individually, just the numbers 0-9. Perfect match! Seller accepted my offer of $3ea.
View attachment 1277912

Hi,

Here's a place where you can get customized keytops:



.
 
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It makes sense that the speaker is 100 OHms in the case where it is returned to -5v. Assuming the emitter follower "landed" the bias conditions in class A by a fluke of the transistor's hfe being close enough, then the max rms voltage swing would be (5 - 0.6) x 0.707 = 3.1v and the max power out prior to clipping 3.1^2/100 = 96 millwatts.

In the case of the 45 Ohm returned to gnd, the max rms voltage swing before clipping, assuming ideal bias would be roughly 4.4/2 x 0.707 = 1.55v and the power output 1.55^2/45 = 53 milliwatts,

The system with the 100R speaker and the return to -5V would have nearly twice the power output of the other with the 45 Ohm speaker returned to ground, assuming full drive was available in both cases.

On the other hand, the altered configuration to a grounded emitter amplifier I suggested, if a transformer is used (because the transformer stores magnetic energy in its core and the collector voltage swings higher than the +5V rail, the DCR of the primary is low, pinning the collector close to 5V), even running from the +5V and gnd, results in a max voltage prior to clipping of close to about (4.4 x 0.7)^2 (volts squared) / 45 ohms (or close) = 210 mW, in practice close to 200mW.

If you really wanted it to play something that cooked (like Marty McFly on his guitar), you could return the emitter circuit of the transistor circuit (with a transformer) to -5V (and the 10k resistor too, the 27k value would need altering to re-gain the 20mA collector current) then you could get about 960 milliwatts out (nearly a watt), but if you did that , I would replace the 2N3904 transistor with a BC639 instead or perhaps a 2N3053 with a heat flag on it. Class-A stages are not very efficient, their idle power consumption is fairly constant and a similar value to their max power output.

But..........

There is also a better option, with no transformer, and that is a "push-pull follower complimentary output stage".

In many ways if there is a -5V rail available this is the way to go, because it eliminates the requirement for an output transformer or output coupling capacitor, works with many impedance speakers, is a balanced system and much more efficient than a class-A amplifier, it is class B with a very low idle current, the power consumed from the supply is largely proportional to the volume (power) output, rather than the constant loss in class-A.

This class-B output stage has just enough initial bias to overcome cross over distortion, see attached.

I would go down this road if the -5V rail was readily available. It can also be made with period correct transistors, of the TO-5 cased variety.

For 16 Ohm and 45 ohm speakers, no heatsink would be required on transistors of these ratings, they might benefit from a small clip on one, in the case that 8 or 4 Ohm speakers were used and it was driven to full power. To find that out, simply run it to full power into a dummy load with a signal generator and measure the transistor's case temperature. In the case of the 45 Ohm speaker they would barely warm up at full output of around 200mW.
 

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A question about the Cherry switches used in this unit:

Most Cherry switches (that fit those key-caps) I have seen on ebay with the Cross fitting appear to be types designed to mount on the surface of a keyboard pcb.

The original switches in this unit are a version that are designed for metal panel mount. Does anybody know a source for this panel mount version of the Cherry switch ?

For example I saw these with the right switch body, but they appear to fit a different style of key-cap:


Or does the keycap with the + shaped hole in it fit on these switches and it simply means that you can fit the keycap at 90 degrees ? (I am unfamiliar with most keycaps & associated switches)
 
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Gawd...this would make you wonder about cannibalizing things.........I went to check on my Kraft transmitter, dug it out of storage. Its basically NOS with the receiver and servos.

One interesting thing, the joystick on the R returns to center. On the left it does too, but in the horizontal plane only, it is free in the vertical plane, I will look to see why....

They simply left out one of the return springs, another would be easily added. It is a clever design in that the one spring returns the joystick to center on each axis, so it only needs two springs per joystick, not 4.

It is a nice transmitter and has one of my favorite RF transistors in the output stage the 2N4427.. These got a little rare, in their original form, then they got faked big time. Most of them now, if you push them to the full spec (unlike the originals) the tiny junction melts.

Kraft Systems was a Californian company, but they chose an eclectic assortment of parts to make this, like the Mullard/Philips Tropical Fish capacitors. Back in the 70's though, that was not uncommon, the makers of the Delta 10 CDI in the USA used a lot of parts from Europe & Germany.
 

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For example I saw these with the right switch body, but they appear to fit a different style of key-cap:


I got the brand new, never built JS-1 on loan from @Torch today (thanks again!!!)

I don't know, it looks identical to the stem on the console. Only thing I notice is these say "8" and the eBay ones say "9".

EDIT: Looking closer, the "8"'s have little protruding stoppers on both sides, whereas the "9"'s don't?

PXL_20240417_004055561.MP.jpg
 
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Gawd...this would make you wonder about cannibalizing things.........I went to check on my Kraft transmitter, dug it out of storage. Its basically NOS with the receiver and servos.
Wow I have no problem cannibalizing the one I ordered (looked like it had seen better days) - but this one, hmm...... I guess nothing we're doing is really irreversible, so should be fine :)
 
One interesting thing, the joystick on the R returns to center. On the left it does too, but in the horizontal plane only, it is free in the vertical plane, I will look to see why....
They simply left out one of the return springs, another would be easily added. It is a clever design in that the one spring returns the joystick to center on each axis, so it only needs two springs per joystick, not 4.
Mode 2 setup, it doesn't have to have a ratchet for throttle but the Futaba gear did. The single spring per axis is ingenious, all the sticks I've seen seem to be that way. Hugo do you have a US reshipper? They can be very handy.
 
Mode 2 setup, it doesn't have to have a ratchet for throttle but the Futaba gear did. The single spring per axis is ingenious, all the sticks I've seen seem to be that way. Hugo do you have a US reshipper? They can be very handy.
No I do not have a re-shipper in the USA. I have some friends in the USA, but I always felt it would be an imposition on their time to ask them to receive something and then re-ship it to me.
 
No I do not have a re-shipper in the USA. I have some friends in the USA, but I always felt it would be an imposition on their time to ask them to receive something and then re-ship it to me.

I don't mind doing it, I'm going to order some anyways! Also sometimes the seller doesn't realize they have international shipping disabled and you can ask them to enable it.

If you DM me your address I can get you an estimate. I have a ShipStation account (I also sell on eBay) so I have no problem shipping to Australia.
 
Wow I have no problem cannibalizing the one I ordered (looked like it had seen better days) - but this one, hmm...... I guess nothing we're doing is really irreversible, so should be fine :)
I think that this general form of analogue joystick is pretty common; it looks very similar to the internals of an Apple II joystick that I have. So there might be things less valuable than the Kraft servo system to cannibalise. (Perhaps even a Kraft joystick—they made joysticks for the Apple II.)

This is not mine (I forgot to take a photo of the internals last time I had it open), but it is substantially the same.
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LOL @Hugo Holden I just happened to go back to guy's listing and now there's a 8-switch listing, was that by request from you? I'm gonna order from that listing too :) Except it looks like there's not multiple quantities available. Could you ask him to keep it listed for another order?
 
I don't mind doing it, I'm going to order some anyways! Also sometimes the seller doesn't realize they have international shipping disabled and you can ask them to enable it.

If you DM me your address I can get you an estimate. I have a ShipStation account (I also sell on eBay) so I have no problem shipping to Australia.
Thanks.

I don't mind posting my email here:

Hugo.Holden9@gmail.com
 
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