Pentium 4

[Zare]

There does exist a whole other class of pirates out there for whom "piracy" is not a "problem" but a pass-time. E.G. - a lot of the people actually doing the work to dump the ROMs, build emulators, crack encryption, etc, are not doing it as a means to an end but as an end itself. The act of figuring out how to get that ROM off that watered down tablet and then emulate the environment on PC is much more fun to them than the game itself.

For many people, DRM is like a mountain, and we are George Mallory.

Exactly. These people are there for the technical challenge, not for profit reasons.

I mean the whole discussion is pretty moot until someone comes up with an example of software company, record company, a band, an author, etc. that got killed by piracy.
"We had a good business going on, then sales dropped because our users moved to pirate releases and we couldn't generate the same revenue anymore"

I haven't heard about such an affair. Unless there are some, we're talking mind crimes and hypothetical victims. If I pirate a movie you can't say I stole five bucks from you because that's the share you get out of a cinema ticket, cause going to movies was never 'an alternative'

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Sounds pretty similar to when us vintage tech folks end up spending 8 hours getting an old piece of hardware up and running just to put it on the shelf and move on to the next thing - the journey can often be more fun than the destination.

Its exactly like that.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Exactly. These people are there for the technical challenge, not for profit reasons.

Profit, if there is any, is only ever being made by the distributors, not the guys who do the actual cracking. In the modern digital world I doubt anyone is making a single penny off of ROM sites. More likely its costing them money, they do it for the love of the games.

I suppose you could argue that the guy selling a modded xbox full of ROMs on craigslist is "making money" but he's really selling his modding skills and hardware, he could delete the ROMs and make you download them yourself for the same price.

I mean the whole discussion is pretty moot until someone comes up with an example of software company, record company, a band, an author, etc. that got killed by piracy.
"We had a good business going on, then sales dropped because our users moved to pirate releases and we couldn't generate the same revenue anymore"

Its actually quite a lot easier to name examples where the opposite happened. Jerome Bixby's "The Man from Earth" got pirated and widely distributed through torrenting sites, which resulted in the movie being seen by a lot more people. That movie pretty much only made any money because so many people pirated it that it raised the profile. People heard of it, they bought the DVD, and the movie was successful enough to get a sequel.

There are probably a few examples out there of the opposite. In the software world I've known of indie games that tanked because of piracy. Though I suspect they got stolen more than bought because the sellers made buying them too difficult. Not that I would ever admit to anything, but there exists a whole community dedicated to providing non-Steam versions of games. I cheer at them from the sidelines.

 

[NeXT]

[walks back into thread after being away for several days]

.......

[walks out]

 

[h2ospa]

What is your idea Pentium 4 system and why? Are you a gamer, OS enthusiast, or other? Please weigh in with your dream ma Hine and logic behind it! I don't discriminate on your passion, tell it like it is for you!

E

Honestly, I totally preferred AMD Athlons (K7 and K8, for the early and later Pentium 4) during that period.
Both Pentium 4s and Athlons are space heaters to be fair, but Athlons are more energy efficient and powerful.

(Side story. Back then I did quite a bit of video editing with my Pentium 4 laptop. I kept the laptop in my bedroom while it was doing the overnight video tasks. That was "free" heat for my bedroom during the winter time.)

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Honestly, I totally preferred AMD Athlons (K7 and K8, for the early and later Pentium 4) during that period.
Both Pentium 4s and Athlons are space heaters to be fair, but Athlons are more energy efficient and powerful.

(Side story. Back then I did quite a bit of video editing with my Pentium 4 laptop. I kept the laptop in my bedroom while it was doing the overnight video tasks. That was "free" heat for my bedroom during the winter time.)

I also went through my AMD phase during the P4 era.

I liked them because as a highschool/college student they were a lot cheaper and felt like they provided a ton of value. I was also really into the "pencil modding" scene(where you link specific pins to unlock better features). I had a pencil-modded dual athlon system for a long time(really wish I'd kept that motherboard now).

 

[reliquiolentus]

I was born in 93 and my second childhood computer was a Dell Dimension 3000 with Pentium 4 that lasted me well into my teenage years. The thing didn't even have AGP but it held on until 2010 or 2011 when my lack of knowledge at the time saw it die a heat death due to dust buildup. I have a soft spot for Pentium 4s having used one for so long and even managed to build a clone of the Dell computer having kept the original hard drive. I even built another using a white socket 478 Soltek motherboard and white GeForce 4 card in a plexiglass panel case as a novelty. However, I do not see them as particularly valuable to my personal collection and as I have gotten more into the hobby I have gravitated more towards custom built 386, 486, and Pentium/Pentium Pro systems with a sprinkling of 8088/286 stuff. I imagine as they become scarcer the prices will rise but they don't seem to have the same gravitas as older stuff even for me; someone who never used most of the stuff I own now having been far to young at the time it was manufactured.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

I was born in 93 and my second childhood computer was a Dell Dimension 3000 with Pentium 4 that lasted me well into my teenage years. The thing didn't even have AGP but it held on until 2010 or 2011 when my lack of knowledge at the time saw it die a heat death due to dust buildup. I have a soft spot for Pentium 4s having used one for so long and even managed to build a clone of the Dell computer having kept the original hard drive. I even built another using a white socket 478 Soltek motherboard and white GeForce 4 card in a plexiglass panel case as a novelty. However, I do not see them as particularly valuable to my personal collection and as I have gotten more into the hobby I have gravitated more towards custom built 386, 486, and Pentium/Pentium Pro systems with a sprinkling of 8088/286 stuff. I imagine as they become scarcer the prices will rise but they don't seem to have the same gravitas as older stuff even for me; someone who never used most of the stuff I own now having been far to young at the time it was manufactured.

Your post makes me wonder if I'll be nostalgic for Celerons in a few more years.

But yeah, by all means, collect what you like to collect and build what you enjoy building. This is a hobby. It should be fun.

 

[Unknown_K]

More than likely whoever had a low-end system probably wants to build the high end one they never had but wanted.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

More than likely whoever had a low-end system probably wants to build the high end one they never had but wanted.

This is what got me into it.

A high-end system from 20 years ago costs less than any single major component for a high-end system today and is just as much fun to build.

 

[EverStaR]

I was born in 93 and my second childhood computer was a Dell Dimension 3000 with Pentium 4 that lasted me well into my teenage years. The thing didn't even have AGP but it held on until 2010 or 2011 when my lack of knowledge at the time saw it die a heat death due to dust buildup. I have a soft spot for Pentium 4s having used one for so long and even managed to build a clone of the Dell computer having kept the original hard drive. I even built another using a white socket 478 Soltek motherboard and white GeForce 4 card in a plexiglass panel case as a novelty. However, I do not see them as particularly valuable to my personal collection and as I have gotten more into the hobby I have gravitated more towards custom built 386, 486, and Pentium/Pentium Pro systems with a sprinkling of 8088/286 stuff. I imagine as they become scarcer the prices will rise but they don't seem to have the same gravitas as older stuff even for me; someone who never used most of the stuff I own now having been far to young at the time it was manufactured.

Omg, 1993, ouch!

 

[hunterjwizzard]

I think the more "recent" PC hardware gets, mass-produced boxes get less appealing. If you go back to the 386/486 era, yeah, off the shelf systems could still be pretty nice; but once you get into the Pentium II and beyond, custom built machines rule the roost. This is not to say that those old pac bells and beige dells don't deserve to be carefully catalogued and preserved for posterity, just that if you want a good retro daily-driver, build it yourself.

 

[Zare]

A high-end system from 20 years ago costs less than any single major component for a high-end system today and is just as much fun to build.

Logical because a server from 2005 was sold to enterprises and same server in 2024 is sold to a group of niche enthusiasts.

I think the more "recent" PC hardware gets, mass-produced boxes get less appealing. If you go back to the 386/486 era, yeah, off the shelf systems could still be pretty nice; but once you get into the Pentium II and beyond, custom built machines rule the roost. This is not to say that those old pac bells and beige dells don't deserve to be carefully catalogued and preserved for posterity, just that if you want a good retro daily-driver, build it yourself.

It's worth nothing that huge portion of the market that used OEM desktops switched to laptop+dock.
On the other side people that want PC want it chiefly because of expansions, mainly graphics. OEMs with their form factor and airflow issues are a bad choice.

 

[Unknown_K]

OEM systems (mid or full towers) are pretty decent for a non-gaming desktop machine. Those machines have minimum cables, decent cooling, and easy to get at the HD (on older models that still have bays).

The downside is the power supplies are not meant to power mid to high end gaming GPUs and you probably don't have space to mount one anyway. If you do buy a gaming power supply, then cable management does to hell (and you probably need adapters). Also, no overclocking and just a basic fan plus minimum airflow so things might overheat.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

It's worth nothing that huge portion of the market that used OEM desktops switched to laptop+dock.

The laptop+doc definitely dominates most professional spaces these days. Once the prices came down enough it made a lot of logical sense. That being said there's still plenty of space for OEM desktops in the business world. My wife's office uses them because no one ever needs to take a laptop somewhere and the place is very cramped. They use those thing Lenovo's or dells I think. Ironically they are using desktops but also wifi, and that works out about as well as you expect.

On the other side people that want PC want it chiefly because of expansions, mainly graphics. OEMs with their form factor and airflow issues are a bad choice.

I suspect in the consumer(non-business) world, non-gaming OEM desktop PCs are pretty much extinct. I'm sure they are technically still being made; but you can't sell a full desktop(monitor/keyboard/mouse) for much less than you can a laptop, and who even is the target market for a non-gaming desktop anymore?

OEM systems (mid or full towers) are pretty decent for a non-gaming desktop machine. Those machines have minimum cables, decent cooling, and easy to get at the HD (on older models that still have bays).

The downside is the power supplies are not meant to power mid to high end gaming GPUs and you probably don't have space to mount one anyway. If you do buy a gaming power supply, then cable management does to hell (and you probably need adapters). Also, no overclocking and just a basic fan plus minimum airflow so things might overheat.

There's a great "life hack" where you buy a mid 2010s Dell, cut the back of the case open and use a PCIe x16 ribbon cable to fit a slightly more recent geforce or AMD card. Spend a couple bucks more on max RAM, maybe a small SSD, and for less than $200 you can build a PC that will run the latest AAA games albeit on the lowest possible settings. If you're a teenager make lawn-mowing money, this can be a highly attractive proposition.

 

[the3dfxdude]

I suspect in the consumer(non-business) world, non-gaming OEM desktop PCs are pretty much extinct. I'm sure they are technically still being made; but you can't sell a full desktop(monitor/keyboard/mouse) for much less than you can a laptop, and who even is the target market for a non-gaming desktop anymore?

High end computing workstations. I mean these are machines that look like your traditional desktop, still made because it allows you to beef up things, unlike a laptop.

There's a great "life hack" where you buy a mid 2010s Dell, cut the back of the case open and use a PCIe x16 ribbon cable to fit a slightly more recent geforce or AMD card. Spend a couple bucks more on max RAM, maybe a small SSD, and for less than $200 you can build a PC that will run the latest AAA games albeit on the lowest possible settings. If you're a teenager make lawn-mowing money, this can be a highly attractive proposition.

This aint new really. In the 90s people were throwing out their old PC so often, that you could get last years model for next to nothing.

Today, yes, you can get pretty much any machine for next to nothing, and stick in a modern gfx card, and everything still basically works, because that is how much progress has slowed.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

High end computing workstations. I mean these are machines that look like your traditional desktop, still made because it allows you to beef up things, unlike a laptop.

Of course this is true, but it is a very niche market.

Funny thing is its a niche market that really should be a whole lot bigger. I have a friend who's a photographer and had for years been doing all her post-processing on a high-end gaming laptop. She was recently gifted a fairly mid-range desktop and found that her work flow sped up two or three times thanks to the extra "umf" the desktop provided. If she ever needs to punch it up a bit more she's got the space now.

This aint new really. In the 90s people were throwing out their old PC so often, that you could get last years model for next to nothing.

Yeah. We hit a time around the early 2000s where there was a massive leap forward. Since then things have pretty much plateaued.

 

[Zare]

Progress is always non linear.
Modern PCs and connectivity have resolved the problem of multimedia. Multimedia is used for information, entertainment, and communication. Unless you're doing a work that benefits from Computer Aided software, and most of the people on the planet aren't, there's nowhere further to go.

Which is pretty realistic. Cars for humans come in speed range of 100 to 300 km/h. The problem domain of very slow or lightning fast cars concerns largely no one...

The current cutting edges of quantum computing, analog computing, associative memories, photonic/digital hybrids and so on, none of that has any lineage in the computer->mainframe->mini->PC line, it is there to serve a specific purpose and it is highly unlikely any of these technologies are going to drive home devices which would be, let's say, a full 3D version of our super high def 2D gaming of today, a holodeck of sorts.