• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Any Epson QX-16 owners out there??

Deltadon,

Well bummer, so the goal continues to remain elusive. I certainly don't want to risk damaging my 1902a. I am the original owner along with my original Commodore 128 system. Not to mention on the used market the 1902a's aren't cheap. So looks like I'm back to square 1. Maybe I'll try your suggestion in respects to applying power to the Epson monitor and see what happens, but I have my doubts since the QX-16 technical manual states that the monitor port can drive Red, Green and Blue. Also, I need to determine what pin takes the power in the monitor otherwise I might end of just smoking the monitor in the process, no point in doing that.

Oh well, I'll keep plugging away on it. I have like five vintage computers laying on my office floor lined up like bodies in a morgue in various states of disassembly where I've been stymied in the process of getting them up and running. I've got to stick with one until completion or I'm gonna forget what parts go where, lol

Gordon
 
Guys,

So I printed the QX-16 technical manual and as I was straightening it out to put a binder clip on it lol and behold there is a picture of the QX-16 monitor with as was guessed a standard power cord coming out the back, unfortunately they didn't bother to specify the part number for the monitor, but at least we sorta know what it looks like for the backside.

Gordon
 
owensct said:
Deltadon,

Well bummer, so the goal continues to remain elusive. I certainly don't want to risk damaging my 1902a. I am the original owner along with my original Commodore 128 system. Not to mention on the used market the 1902a's aren't cheap. So looks like I'm back to square 1. Maybe I'll try your suggestion in respects to applying power to the Epson monitor and see what happens, but I have my doubts since the QX-16 technical manual states that the monitor port can drive Red, Green and Blue. Also, I need to determine what pin takes the power in the monitor otherwise I might end of just smoking the monitor in the process, no point in doing that.

Oh well, I'll keep plugging away on it. I have like five vintage computers laying on my office floor lined up like bodies in a morgue in various states of disassembly where I've been stymied in the process of getting them up and running. I've got to stick with one until completion or I'm gonna forget what parts go where, lol

Gordon
Click to expand...

My previous post provides the pin out of the video cable -- at both ends. Since we're using a QX-10 CRT the connector on it has the wires internally for power/ground and is just lacking power coming from the QX-16 CPU. So supplying power should just soldering a wire to the correct pins (power and ground) of the CRT's connector and turning on the +12volt supply. I won't mess with the video cable or the CPU unit. I was thinking a laptop style brick added to the CRT monitor would be best overall. Just need to drill a hole someplace on the CRT case and put the mating connector for the brick's connector. Then wiring +12 and ground connections to the existing connector inside the monitor and Bob's your uncle. Question is the number of watts needed - a 50 watt brick equals about 4 amps @ 12vdc.
 
Deltadon,

I'll give that a shot. I have boxes of power supplies in the garage. If it works I drill and hole in the case and put a port for plugging in the power supply, but first things first I'll just alligator clip a power supply to it and see if I get any video output. I'll let you know how I make out.

Do either one of you know what the model number is for the QX-16 monitor?

Thanks

Gordon
 
Deltadon,

So this is what I've found in the QX-10 technical manual on the CRT and the QX-16 manual on the CRT pinouts. So probably dumb questions but,

1. The 12 volts positive goes to pin 4, but based on how the pinout reads do I need to split the ground from power to pins 5 and 7?

2. Since pin 4 on the QX-16 which is power on the QX-10 is active on the QX-16 as H.Synch wouldn't that feed the 12 volts back into the QX-16 which I assume would be a bad thing?

Would a better approach be to build a breakout box to feed power to the CRT and breakout the pins on the QX-16 so they match their corresponding pins on the QX-10 monitor where applicable?

The last image is what I "assume" would be the pin assignments for a breakout box, but it is obviously incomplete. Don't want to smoke the QX-16 or to a lesser degree the QX-10 monitor.

Retrograde, I read an article on the QX-16 an article that stated the QX-16 will not support the use of IBM compatible cards and that Epson was planning to release their own line of accessory cards and a color monitor for the 16, guess they never got around to it.

CRTSpecs1.png CRTSpecs2.png Breakout.png Article.png



Thanks

Gordon
 
I didn't read about the computer very much yet, so I was unsure about video/graphics capability. I just read that some option cards which were compatible with qx-10 should work on qx-16 somehow. It's disappointing if the green monitor is the only possible display though, with it's odd specs. The qx-16 has different color modes but maybe RGB doesn't work properly, and maybe Epson didn't produce a color monitor.
 
Retrograde,

Yes it really is a bummer. it seems like they were only limited numbers of them produced and because it didn't gain in popularity like Epson hoped they may not have produced the accessory cards or the color monitor and with the really unusual specs for the QX-16 monitor getting a third party monitor to work with it seems like a long shot at best. Unfortunately that situation means that if you don't have a complete unit with the monitor it's nothing but a doorstop. which is really too bad because it is a unique system.

I haven't given up, I'm wondering if I could hook it up to a modern LCD display using some kind of CGA to VGA converter. since modern used LCD displays are fairly cheap in comparison to vintage ones it wouldn't be that big a deal if it got smoked somehow and since it wouldn't be a 2 way signal you wouldn't have to worry about it feeding something back into the computer and smoking it. According to what I'm able to find in the documentation the signal from the computer is CGA and there are CGA to VGA converters available for cheap on Amazon. I haven't given much thought to it yet so I obviously don't have any details worked out and as this kind of electronics work is not my strong suit I may be barking up the wrong tree. I think a lot of it will depend on much epson's idea of a CGA signal differs from a standard one.

Gordon
 
owensct said:
Deltadon,

So this is what I've found in the QX-10 technical manual on the CRT and the QX-16 manual on the CRT pinouts. So probably dumb questions but,

1. The 12 volts positive goes to pin 4, but based on how the pinout reads do I need to split the ground from power to pins 5 and 7?

2. Since pin 4 on the QX-16 which is power on the QX-10 is active on the QX-16 as H.Synch wouldn't that feed the 12 volts back into the QX-16 which I assume would be a bad thing?

Would a better approach be to build a breakout box to feed power to the CRT and breakout the pins on the QX-16 so they match their corresponding pins on the QX-10 monitor where applicable?

The last image is what I "assume" would be the pin assignments for a breakout box, but it is obviously incomplete. Don't want to smoke the QX-16 or to a lesser degree the QX-10 monitor.

Retrograde, I read an article on the QX-16 an article that stated the QX-16 will not support the use of IBM compatible cards and that Epson was planning to release their own line of accessory cards and a color monitor for the 16, guess they never got around to it.

View attachment 65519 View attachment 65520 View attachment 65521 View attachment 65523



Thanks

Gordon
Click to expand...

Gordon,

The following is quoted from the site I referenced earlier:

"QX-10 monitor cable
7-pin 8-pin
monitor QX-10 function wire color (original)
------- ----- -------- ----------
1 ------- 8 video shielded wire
2 ------- 5 v. sync grey
3 ------- 4 h. sync red
4 ------- 1 +12 V brown
5 ------- 2 sync gnd green
6 ------- 7 video gnd shield
7 none
3 none
6 none
The pictures referred to below are at the QX-10 site way-back machine copy
The first column corresponds with the qxcrt01.gif pin definition, the connector at the back of the monitor. The left part of the cable3.gif picture.
The second column is the pin out at the QX-10. The right part of the cable3.gif picture.
The last column is the default wire color. This has nothing to do with the signal, just the colors of the original Epson cable.
The cable3.gif also learns that for a short cable no shielding for the video signal is needed.
Note that the sequence of the connector pins doesn't seem very logical. It helps to know the connector was originally defined by the DIN-organisation (Deutsche Industrie Norm) to have just three pins for audio (mono record, ground and playback), later extended to five (stereo), and still later to seven and more.
The QX-10 with monochrome monitor uses weird sync frequencies: 19.3 kHz horizontal and 45.8 Hz vertical."

Since we are working on the monitor, and not the CPU, we need to use the pin out for the cable where it plugs into the monitor or the first column above. So pin #5 and pin #6 on the monitor's connector are some form of a ground. One would normally not put current through a cable's shield which is pin #6, IMHO. But what the Japanese did in the 1970's??? Also, why they are claiming #5 is a sync ground confuses me. Not chassis ground too? So your guess as to what pin should be the ground return is as good a guess as anything I can come up with without using a ohm meter to see if one or both pins are ground on the monitor's circuit board. I would use pin #4 (brown) for the +12v and the circuit board's ground for the ground to connect to the power supply's ground. Might be both pins 5&6 at the connector or does one float and is not chassis ground.
 
owensct said:
Retrograde,

Yes it really is a bummer. it seems like they were only limited numbers of them produced and because it didn't gain in popularity like Epson hoped they may not have produced the accessory cards or the color monitor and with the really unusual specs for the QX-16 monitor getting a third party monitor to work with it seems like a long shot at best. Unfortunately that situation means that if you don't have a complete unit with the monitor it's nothing but a doorstop. which is really too bad because it is a unique system.

I haven't given up, I'm wondering if I could hook it up to a modern LCD display using some kind of CGA to VGA converter. since modern used LCD displays are fairly cheap in comparison to vintage ones it wouldn't be that big a deal if it got smoked somehow and since it wouldn't be a 2 way signal you wouldn't have to worry about it feeding something back into the computer and smoking it. According to what I'm able to find in the documentation the signal from the computer is CGA and there are CGA to VGA converters available for cheap on Amazon. I haven't given much thought to it yet so I obviously don't have any details worked out and as this kind of electronics work is not my strong suit I may be barking up the wrong tree. I think a lot of it will depend on much epson's idea of a CGA signal differs from a standard one.

Gordon
Click to expand...

My guess? is that the QX-16 at first used the same monochrome monitor as the QX-10 and perhaps Epson found that the power supply was overloaded and did an update to both the CPU unit (removed +12 from the video connector) (hence the 801A) and also added a power supply to the QX-16A's CRT monitor(s) (both mono and color). About that same time the whole project died, due to IBM's PC kicked butt) and what we are left with are QX-16A's without any monitors at all. Either leftovers that were never sold since perhaps the monitors were never built and shipped or somehow a different monitor such as the NEC multi-sync was relabeled and sold with them. Over time the multi-sync monitors have been resold as useful with a PC and the few QX-16A got stuck into storage by original owners as junk. So few of them out there and so little data and so it's nothing but a pure guess. It is strange perhaps that none of the QX-16's I've seen for sale over the past couple of years have had a monitor with them. Plus I've never seen a mono or color QX-16 monitor for sale in the USA. Just a few mono QX-10 mono CRT's and even they are rare as it is. The total number of QX-16's sold must have been very few and no large customers bought dozens and dozens of them only to later them sold off. If we only could find person that worked for a Epson dealer that knew the whole story.
 
Delatadon,

I suspect your thoughts aren't far from the truth. The girl I bought it from says but its rare and I'm like yes, but rare in vintage computers isn't the same thing as rare in paintings or books or jewelry. Rare in computers can be a good thing, but really rare in computers not so much. If its too rare you can't get parts, docs or software for it. A rare computer that doesn't work and can't be repaired or for which you can't get parts is just scrap. In this case you can't even scrounge parts from it for use in more popular vintage systems because it is not only rare but proprietary. Not a good combination.

I'm still hoping she'll find the rest of the system, but it getting to the point where I am going to have to tell her if she can't find the rest of it that I'm going to have to request a return through Ebay as my return windows is rapidly closing. It's too bad as she really is trying to find the parts, but I can't wait much longer and I can put that money towards repairing my existing vintage systems or for buying one that I have a chance of bringing back to life.

I am going to try and call Epson next week just from grins.

Gordon
 
I guess I'll dig out my system and rig up a power supply to my QX-10 monitor and see what happens. Worst case I've wasted a few hours and have no results.

One other thought that I've been kicking around was picking up one of those S-video to CGA/VGA adapter boxes and see if there's a way to make the QX-16 work with a standard LCD display via the adapter. Video signals are a mystery to me and I will need to contact a Guru that knows video processing and see what they think. I'd hate to think you're going to return your QX-16 since it might end up being scrapped. Maybe ask for a discount? I for sure would like to have a mouse and would hate to know one existed, but was then scrapped.

If we were all closer to each other I'd suggest throwing a Epson working party get together virus masks and all.
 
Deltadon,

I was thinking along the same lines. I do have a unit that I bought to use with my C128 C64 mode and it work well with that and my Apple IIe, but I'm not sure it would work with the QX-16. In doing some additional digging on a CGA to VGA converters for vintage computers and I ran across a YouTube video and this one looks pretty promising in respects to the QX-16. It a bit pricey, but it seem pretty impressive in the video review.

Yeah getting together and doing a working group for QX-16 sounds like a good idea, but as you say we're a little far for an afternoon jaunt, lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SII7ujB3FY
Let me know what you think of this gizmo

BTW I found this info on the mouse that came with the QX-16
https://www.oldmouse.com/mouse/mousesystems/m2.shtml


Gordon
 
Okay, I dug out my Q702A Green CRT monitor and read the labels on the back. It states it is for use with Q701, Q801 or Q916 A,B or C models. A second label says it needs 12V @ 1.5 amps. So a 50 watt brick should be well able to power the beast. I then pulled the four screws (2 in back, 2 under side) and put the monitor on it's nose and lifted the plastics off. Easy, no special worries about the CRT neck or other issues. Inside the 7 pin DIN style connector is mounted to a metal plate attached to the chassis. There's a large hole just above the DIN in the metal plate and so drilling a hole for a power connector in the case plastics would work, but no way to mount the new connector to the plate unless a small new metal plate was made up (which I can do) There's two unused holes in the existing plate on the 90 bent over top of the plate which would work for mounting screws for the new power connector with new plate.

Now, moving on to the heart of the monitor. I looked at the circuit board and right away I noticed that there's two powder blue capacitors with bowed tops plus maybe 4 or 5 other mostly black caps on the board. So it appears first things first I'll be recapping the board for at least these two blue caps. Crap!

The DIN connector has four wires attached to pins plus a shield (on the video wire) and the shield is connected to two pins. So both grounds are the same. The wires are as follows: Red marked "+B" on the circuit board Molex type connector, Blue marked "H", Green marked "V" and Gray w shield marked "VID". So it appears +B is the power lead, but I didn't ohm the circuit, but others are Horz, Vert and Video leads, IMHO.

Adding a connector should be easy once the hole is drilled and plate are both done

If one didn't want to modify their monitor I got thinking about an adapter cable and found this: https://www.amazon.com/Hxchen-Femal...rds=7+pin+din+connector&qid=1609790746&sr=8-2

Using one male and one female and a few pieces of wire (one shielded) a short cable with a power jack brought out could also work. However, I would suggest looking at the cap's on your monitors.
 
I used to own an Epson QX-16 --- you can see a picture of it here, from my teenage years --- but as I'd forgotten details of its monitor cable and mains connections, I've kept mum for now.

But! The mouse with my QX-16 was a classic Logitech C7-style mouse. I don't know whether it was a bus mouse or a serial mouse, but I suspect serial since I don't remember any kind of expansion card or special "mouse" port on the back of the machine. I do remember that the connection was over a standard DB-25 port.

I won't say that the C7 was the "true" QX-16 mouse --- for all I know, the prior owner replaced the original one before I got it.

I've been following this thread with interest. Good luck! It's made me wish I still had my old machine to help you out. Everything is gone, unfortunately. I gave the computer away before a long-distance move.
 
Adding more to put everything in one thread.

QX-10 video is 80 x 25 lines plus in graphics mode is 640 x 400. Horz. frequency = ?, Vert frequency = ?

IBM MDA = 720 x 348 and the Hort. freq. = 18.43KHz & a 50 Hz refresh rate.

IBM MCDA = 720 x 348, 15.7 to 18.43 Horz freq. 50 or 60 refresh rate

The following was found on Tom's Hardware:

"
Nov 26, 2013

The QX-16 supports cga and monochrome ttl only.

Dip switch 1 must be down (on) to run valdocs
2,3,4 not used at present time
5,6,7' Specify the ms-dos video mode
8 always up
Ibm color cga 1, 7 down
Ibm mono 1,7,8 down
All on mono monitor

Bob Fitzhugh"
 
Hi Guys,

More interesting information. Delatadon I've pulled the case on my monitor a while back and everything looks super clean, none of the caps are bulging and all are shiny and clean Good info on the dip switches.

Stepleton, the mouse that came with my QX-16 is pretty unusual, it has permanently connected what looks like a 25 pin serial passthrough with a power adapter that plugs into it. Kind of strange.

I'll have to post some pictures later this week. Right now I'm on my Surface as my main computer took a nosedive last night its a liquid cooled system and my cooling pump failed and to make matters worse the company that makes it pulled the pump from the market and if I can't get a replacement from them I'm going to have to redesign the cooling loop so I can use a different pump, so I may be out of the loop, (pun intended) for a few days.

Gordon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top