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Anybody have info on a Transitional Technologies Qbus SCSI card?

I assume they don't know anything, seems like most Qbus cards on ebay are being sold by surplus dealers who just buy the stuff and list it. Half of them refuse to list the cards with their actual module numbers and insist on only listing the PCB part number, which is completely useless.

I swear it seems like some of those companies don't actually want to make money.
 
patrick-j lists a lot of DEC stuff. They might know something. The card was listed as coming from a running VAX 4000 so I asked if they knew what the card had been hooked to in that running VAX. Might get an answer.

The one chip with the noticed about being licensed from DEC was interesting, too. Means it might be a KZQSA clone.
 
reinhardtjh said:
patrick-j lists a lot of DEC stuff. They might know something. The card was listed as coming from a running VAX 4000 so I asked if they knew what the card had been hooked to in that running VAX. Might get an answer.

The one chip with the noticed about being licensed from DEC was interesting, too. Means it might be a KZQSA clone.
Click to expand...
Pure spectulation follows. TTI supplied their own controllers for SCSI DDS tape drives. I used a variant on an 11/750. I don't recall using a special driver and it probably came up as DEC Tape drive look alike. I never tried to attach a disk drive, but if VMS will load a the DKDRIVER for it, it might work.
 
wa2flq said:
Pure spectulation follows. TTI supplied their own controllers for SCSI DDS tape drives. I used a variant on an 11/750. I don't recall using a special driver and it probably came up as DEC Tape drive look alike. I never tried to attach a disk drive, but if VMS will load a the DKDRIVER for it, it might work.
Click to expand...

I have a few of those TTI cards, with normal handles for BA23/123.
They are tape only.

There should be threads searchable in this forum, or cctalk, or comp.os.vms
Questions like this pop up every few years.
If memory serves me right, i have some kind of advertising paper "somewhere" lying around. In it is written that they sold only tape controllers.
I try to look after the paper the next weeks and get back to this thread...
So stay tuned ;-)
 
Wildfire said:
If memory serves me right, i have some kind of advertising paper "somewhere" lying around. In it is written that they sold only tape controllers.
I try to look after the paper the next weeks and get back to this thread...
So stay tuned ;-)
Click to expand...
Much obliged.
 
I have a couple of these TTI 10012000 cards. The normal handle version is a QTS-1, the S-handle version is a QTS-3. The boards I have are TMSCP only. I'll have to dig out the boards I have and check the firmware versions.

I see here firmware versions 1.7 and 2.3. Looking at the 1.7 version in a hex editor I only see TMSCP strings, while looking at the 2.3 version in a hex editor I see both TMSCP and MSCP strings. If my boards have version 1.7 firmware I should try installing version 2.3 firmware and see if I can get it to work as an MSCP controller.

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tti/TTI_10012000/
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tti/TTI_10012000/TTI_10012000_Rev1.7.BIN
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tti/TTI_10012000/TTI_10012000_Rev2.3.BIN
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tti/TTI_10012000/TTI_10012000_f.jpg
 
I found my two TTI QTS cards. The dual wide QTS-1 version looks exactly the same as this card (except the handles aren't missing on mine), with the same numbers on all of the white labels, including the V2.3 firmware EPROM:

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tti/TTI_10012000/TTI_10012000_f.jpg

The quad wide QTS-3 S-handle version looks like the one in the eBay listing. The eBay listing photos are too blurry to read any of the labels. Mine has a V2.2 firmware EPROM, which doesn't have an image dump on bitsavers. I'll have to dump the V2.2 firmware EPROM on mine.

I'll have to take another look at my QTS-1 card with the V2.3 firmware and see if there is any MSCP support visible through the 10-pin IDC header configuration serial port.

I have an original copy of the small manual that came with one of the boards. I couldn't find it right now. When I eventually find it I'll have to see about scanning it.
 
oktology said:
I assume they don't know anything, seems like most Qbus cards on ebay are being sold by surplus dealers who just buy the stuff and list it. Half of them refuse to list the cards with their actual module numbers and insist on only listing the PCB part number, which is completely useless.

I swear it seems like some of those companies don't actually want to make money.
Click to expand...
I have to agree.

A long while back I noticed a board for sale on Ebay. listed as a random board from a x-ray system. Random 8 digit part number.
No useful information.

I recognized the q-bus shape and a NCR5380 SCSI chip and 50 pin connector. That had to be some sort of SCSI host bus adapter!
Best $25 bucks I ever bid! It turned out to be a TDL-12. Emulates 4 RL02 disks Using a SCSI disk.

I would have paid more. The lame description cost them a LOT.
 
oktology said:
seems like most Qbus cards on ebay are being sold by surplus dealers who just buy the stuff and list it. Half of them refuse to list the cards with their actual module numbers and insist on only listing the PCB part number, which is completely useless.
Click to expand...

They don't know jack about boards. The ones that do list them for stupidly high prices.
Enjoy picking up bargains there when you can and be grateful they don't sell them with the gold edge connectors chopped off.

<end of line>
 
jlang said:
I recognized the q-bus shape and a NCR5380 SCSI chip and 50 pin connector. That had to be some sort of SCSI host bus adapter!
Best $25 bucks I ever bid! It turned out to be a TDL-12. Emulates 4 RL02 disks Using a SCSI disk.
Click to expand...

The TDL-12 is an interesting board. I also picked up one a long time ago. I couldn't find any information about it at the time. After a lot of poking around with it I finally figured out how to get into the on board DMON> configuration utility.

https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/td-systems-tdl-12-qbus-scsi-controller-information.35085/
 
I took a quick look at my QT-1 card with the version V2.3 firmware. I couldn't figure out any way to get into anything MSCP related from the on board configuration utility.

I did find a DIAG command. The only subcommand there I could get to do anything for now is the L command, which appears to dump memory dwords from the on board processor memory space. The example below is dumping the copyright string from near the beginning of the V2.3 firmware EPROM (using CTRL-J to step to and dump the next address).

Without peeling the label off of the on board processor to check the chip markings, I assume it must be a 68008 processor as it is a 48-pin DIP with only 8-bit wide firmware EPROM and SRAM chips. I guess the next step would to try to disassemble the 68K firmware and see if any clues can be found. Maybe there is a DIAG subcommand that could be used to switch it into MSCP mode. I suppose it is also possible that the MSCP support is something that was never made fully functional in this firmware version, but it was left in place instead of being completely stripped out of the firmware.

Code: 
Host Adapter Configuration
Firmware Version 2.3
Copyright (C) 1988, 1989 by Transitional Technology, Inc.

   [T] Tape CSR = 760404  (E104)
   [S] SCSI ID  = 7                 [R] SCSI Reset = Enabled

   [F] Flags    = None

   [0] Unit 0 = Tape, TMSCP Unit = 0 , Tape = DS
   [1] Unit 1 = unused
   [2] Unit 2 = unused
   [3] Unit 3 = unused
   [4] Unit 4 = unused
   [5] Unit 5 = unused
   [6] Unit 6 = unused

[DFLT] Factory NovRam Settings   [TEST] Test SCSI Device

Select Option > DIAG

Diag> L 00000120

00120 = 0007FFFC
00124 = 4E73436F
00128 = 70797269
0012C = 67687420
00130 = 31393838
00134 = 2C203139
00138 = 38392062
0013C = 79205472
00140 = 616E7369
00144 = 74696F6E
00148 = 616C2054
0014C = 6563686E
00150 = 6F6C6F67
00154 = 792C2049
00158 = 6E632E20
0015C = 416C6C20
00160 = 72696768
00164 = 74732072
00168 = 65736572
0016C = 7665642E

Diag>
 
m_thompson said:
Maybe dump the ROMs and look for text strings?
Click to expand...

See reply #8. Looking at a dump of the firmware is what give me the idea to start looking for any MSCP support.

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tti/TTI_10012000/TTI_10012000_Rev2.3.BIN

Here are some of the strings I see inside of the firmware dump. I can't find a way to get to anything related to MSCP Disk support through the on board configuration utility, only the TMSCP Tape support.

Code: 
Enter new Tape CSR value (OCTAL)
Enter new Disk CSR value (OCTAL)
Device types: 0 = Unused, 1 = Other Host
Device types: 0 = Unused, 1 = Other Host, 2 = Tape
Device types: 0 = Unused, 1 = Other Host, 2 = Tape, 3 = Disk
Enter new TMSCP unit number (DEC)
Enter new MSCP unit number (DEC)
   [T] Tape CSR =
   [D] Disk CSR   =
[FM] Format SCSI Disk
Disk,  MSCP Unit =
Tape, TMSCP Unit =
Enter SCSI disk unit number >
**** Formatting will DESTROY all user data ****
**** Continue with Format (Y or N) ? [N]

Looking at the strings is also how I found the DIAG command.

Ideally the firmware actually has full MSCP Disk support and there is some setting in the NVRAM that switches it between TMSCP and MSCP modes. Then the challenge would be to find that setting in the NVRAM and figure out how to toggle it. Disassembling the firmware would probably be the only way to figure that out. It is also possible that the MSCP Disk support is not functional and there is no way to enable it. Or there might be some hardware strapping or programmable devices on the board which set it to either TMSCP or MSCP mode.
 
I don't see any strings related to partitioning a disk drive to emulate one or more DEC drives. I have a CDU-720 that asks lots of questions about partitioning a large SCSI disk into several standard DEC MSCP disk drives. Maybe this is a TMSCP only controller?
 
I installed Ghidra https://ghidra-sre.org/ and tried using it for the very first time to take a look at the version V2.3 firmware 68000 disassembly. It looks like a powerful tool, but with a bit of a learning curve for a first time user to try to find my way around unknown firmware code.

Another more complicated to set up thing I might try is hooking up a logic analyzer to the 68008 to monitor the instruction flow. Too bad the 68008 isn't socketed. That would make it easier to attach an HP 64673A 10310B 68008 Preprocessor probe. I have one of those that I have never had an excuse to use previously. There might not be enough clearance on both side of the 68008 to attach a 3M 48-pin DIP test clip. Hooking up a whole bunch of individual flying lead clips instead would be a tedious exercise, but I might give that a try.
 
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