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Apple //e mouse

C

Call-151

Experienced Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
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75
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Hi, im new to the forum, i recently found an early model apple //c from my local thrift store. Doing some research i found that this computer can be used with a mouse, and i have sourced one locally through craigslist but would like to know if it would work with this machine. The one being sold is stated as a 'Apple //e mouse' that has a db9 connector. I would like to know before i go ahead and purchase this mouse if this would work on this //c. If the connector is not compatible with the //c can i retrofit a plug that will work to connect the //e mouse to the //c. thank you.
 
Yes - the IIc has a built in mouse port - you plug the mouse into the joystick socket. This is *not* the case on the IIe, which requires a special mouse card. The IIe's joystick socket can only be used for a joystick.

The IIe mouse will work on the IIc - it's the same. All the Apple computers for this era use the same sort of mouse (IIe, IIc, Lisa, Mac 128k/512k/Plus), although they made them in a couple colors and styles, they're all electrically the same, and have a male DB9 connector. The later ADB mice are only for the IIgs and Macintosh SE and up, - but those are easy to spot, they have a 4 pin mini-din connector.

Once you've plugged the mouse into the IIc, you will need some software for it. Look for MouseDesk, and MousePaint - a MacOS like GUI and a MacPaint clone, respectively.

-Ian
 
Thanks RH. As for software, thats a challenge for me now as i dont have any software with it, but have researched something about hooking my PC laptop to the //c. Ive found only a rs232 (9db) to usb cable locally but havent been able to find the needed 5 pin connector for the //c as of yet. Does anybody know, once i locate the needed 5 pin connector, cut off the rs232 (9bd) connector, and splice in the 5 pin connector this usb cable? is it even possible? links? (come to think of it, even if i can get the programs from the laptop, how do i save them to the //c???????
 
ADTPro is what you want. Visit here : http://adtpro.sourceforge.net/

The ADTPro software allows you to bootstrap an Apple II from the 'bare metal', with no existing bootable disks. You just need to make up a serial cable to connect the Apple IIc's 5 pin serial port to the 9 pin DSUB on your adapter. Don't cut up the adapter, just use a mating DB-9 connector (available at Radio Shack). Rat Shack used to carry 5 pin DIN plugs as well, but I don't know about now. Shouldn't be too hard to find an AT keyboard extension cable, or a MIDI cable, or something similar to cut up. IIRC, Radio Shack still sells MIDI cables, so you can buy one, cut an end off, and solder on a 9 pin connector. Anyone remember if MIDI cables have all 5 pins wired through?

ADTPro is fall over easy to use, and once you've got the necessary serial wiring set up, you're in business. All the documentation, including wiring diagrams, is right on the ADTPro site.

You'll want to check your IIc though, see what ROM version you have. If it's a real early one, you might have trouble running the serial port at high speeds. To check which version you have, enter the system monitor and type FBBF. It'll respond with one of a few things:

FBBF-FF - Original IIc. May have flakey serial ports
FBBF-00 - Updated IIc, supports UniDisk 3.5
FBBF-03 - Expandable Memory version of IIc
FBBF-04 - Last ROM revision, minor bug fixes

-Ian
 
RetroHacker_ said:
All the Apple computers for this era use the same sort of mouse (IIe, IIc, Lisa, Mac 128k/512k/Plus), although they made them in a couple colors and styles, they're all electrically the same, and have a male DB9 connector.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about this? I thought the Mac mice were different than the Apple II mice. I tried a Mac Plus mouse on a //c one time. It's been about 15 years, but I remember that tracking in either the x or y direction was really fast or really slow. I guess it's time to dust off the //c and try it again.
 
tomasont said:
Are you sure about this? I thought the Mac mice were different than the Apple II mice. I tried a Mac Plus mouse on a //c one time. It's been about 15 years, but I remember that tracking in either the x or y direction was really fast or really slow. I guess it's time to dust off the //c and try it again.
Click to expand...

They're the same. The tracking speed might have just been due to a dirty mouse, or just because you're not used to the way the II handles mice. For example, on the IIgs, the tracking speed is *not* the same in the horizontal and vertical directions. It's disorienting if you're used to modern GUIs, but there isn't anything wrong.

It's been long enough since I used MousePaint that I don't remember how it behaved in there.

-Ian
 
RetroHacker_ said:
The IIe mouse will work on the IIc - it's the same. All the Apple computers for this era use the same sort of mouse (IIe, IIc, Lisa, Mac 128k/512k/Plus), although they made them in a couple colors and styles, they're all electrically the same, and have a male DB9 connector.
Click to expand...
I vaguely recall that there were reports of some incompatibility between later Mac Plus mice and the II line...
 
RetroHacker_ said:
They're the same. The tracking speed might have just been due to a dirty mouse, or just because you're not used to the way the II handles mice. For example, on the IIgs, the tracking speed is *not* the same in the horizontal and vertical directions. It's disorienting if you're used to modern GUIs, but there isn't anything wrong.

It's been long enough since I used MousePaint that I don't remember how it behaved in there.

-Ian
Click to expand...

It's true they are expected to be the same electrically but people (myself included) have come across the rare M0100 from time to time that won't work right on an Apple II, yet have no apparent issues on a same-era Mac.
 
Alright so with the confidence of the posts here ive put my offer in for that mouse.

Just curious, with all this talk about 'bootstrapping' with a null cable. Has there been any attempts of re-wiring a standard Flash memory card reader to the apple //c? the card reader i am thinking about is one that can handle a multi card setup (MMC, Scan disc, CF). Could one just modify the usb cable, find the wire leads that reads/writes/sends from that cable and attach that to the 5 pin port? If this has been done already, can someone point me to any links for modifying. I believe this would be easier and faster then hooking up the apple to the pc.
 
Call-151 said:
I believe this would be easier and faster then hooking up the apple to the pc.
Click to expand...

Yes. Building a car from raw iron ore is far easier than taking the bus.

:mrgreen:

No, such a device has not been modified. It is *not* a trivial task, as you need a microcontroller to communicate with the USB peripheral, and send USB mass storage commands to it, reading and writing blocks and feeding them to the Apple. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it certainally isn't easy.

In contrast, connecting the Apple to the serial port on the PC takes about fifteen minutes - and that's if you have to build the cable.

There *does* exist an Apple II card called the CFFA, which acts as a Compact Flash reader for the Apple II. This is much easier than a generic card reader, since Compact Flash is really nothing more than IDE, which is a simple bus. Still, the board is complicated, and expensive - over $100. Also, it can't be used on the //c, since the //c has no slots.

-Ian
 
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