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Apple IIGS. Got a box finally

T

tezza

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
4,731
Location
New Zealand
Four years ago I received an Apple IIGS that had suffered death by battery acid. I tossed the motherboard but kept everything else. Now, at last, I managed to get a replacement CPU box off our local Trade Me site. The board was in good nick, even though it did have a very flat battery installed (cover and battery is removed in the photo).

2012-08-15-myIIGS-board.jpg


Last night I threw in a new battery, assembled everything and volia!! It all worked.

Now I've actually played with one, I've started to warm to this model. I can see why Apple II enthusiasts like the IIGS. With the RGB monitor, text and graphics are crisp, even with the old Apple II software. The keyboard is nice to use too. I've even got used to the "stacked-box" shape, which first struck me as ugly. At some stage I'll write something about the new acquisition and post a link here.

Lots of manuals and software was donated with the original machine so there is a lot to play with.

One thing that interests me is WHY Apple kept selling IIes so long after the IIGS was available? It's runs all the software so why didn't they just phase out all Apple IIes once the GS on the market instead of running the two parallel lines?? (I guess Commodore also did this with the 128 and the 64). I wouldn't have thought the GS cost any more to build, but maybe manufacturing costs were higher?

Tez
 
I hadn't realized until someone here posted a video comparing the audio/video quality between this, an Atari ST and I believe an Amiga that it was a multimedia type of machine. I know it came out very late in the game though, didn't it come out almost in-line with the Mac? The Apple IIe was from what I understand a hacker friendly machine. Users were encouraged to build, take it apart/open it up, and have fun. Once the IIc came out and probably IIgs if you opened it up you voided your warranty and it seemed like they had 180'd on the market into a closed mind corporation (that's my interpretation). That could potentially be why IIe systems stayed out there, that and most likely price tag.
 
barythrin said:
The Apple IIe was from what I understand a hacker friendly machine. Users were encouraged to build, take it apart/open it up, and have fun. Once the IIc came out and probably IIgs if you opened it up you voided your warranty and it seemed like they had 180'd on the market into a closed mind corporation (that's my interpretation). That could potentially be why IIe systems stayed out there, that and most likely price tag.
Click to expand...

In terms of the IIGS, those were my initial thoughts too but actually, it seems quite hacker friendly. The case just pops open (no screws), and there are slots inside for adding all kinds of devices just like the Apple II/IIe. You would not void warrenty for opening the case then. (The Macintosh...on the other hand..., yes that was a closed system). So if the IIGS was hacker friendly, and had slots (presumably compatible with II/IIE cards), why not shut down manufacture of the IIe and replace it wholesale with the IIGS? Prehaps the IIGS was more expensive to build hence there was a price difference? Often the more integrated the technology and fewer chips, the cheaper the construction cost though?

Tez
 
The IIgs was more expensive then the IIe and showed up on the market in September of 1986 in the US. Schools bought it, but never in the same numbers. They also rarely, if ever, used the IIgs specific features. Many were used as a fast Apple IIe with built in serial support. The graphics on the IIgs were on par with the Atari ST, but lacked hardware sprites. The limiting factor for the machine against the other 16bit micros was its stock 2.8Mhz clock speed, and 1Mhz 8bit expansion bus (held over from the IIe for compatibility). With an accelerator card pushing the system to 7-12Mhz, its quite snappy. The Ensoniq 5503DOC blew away both the ST and Amiga in terms of sound capabilities though.

BTW, that is a ROM3 board you have there.
 
It must be the expense then. How much more was it than a standard IIe, does anyone know?

This image from Wikipedia on the Apple IIe shows when the two models were in the marketplace..

eb7917ce4f4350a80fb2bbf9bd5bee7a.png


My point is that, setting aside its extra features, the IIGS could do everything an Apple IIe could do (and more). So why continue to produce the Apple IIe/IIe platinum way up to 1993! Why not can it in 1987 and let the IIGS pick up the Apple II torch given it was 100% compatible with the IIe in the same way the II+ was canned for the IIe. If this had been done, maybe the GS would have been more successful? And more IIGS software might have been written.

However, maybe it was price. If the IIe was pitched at a much lower price than the IIGS, then two market slots could exist (high end and low end). I suspect there wouldn't have been much REAL difference in manufacturing price though, so it was simply the way Apple looked at market placement.

Tez
 
Awesome Tez, glad to hear this. You got a ROM03 board, too! The IIGS could do everything a IIe could do (except run a few select software titles that are incompatible with it), but of course also had built-in what was previously only available as an add-on. To your question, I would guess it was purely a cost issue. IIe's were much less than the IIGS and continued to depreciate so schools probably thought "well, we can buy 30 IIe's or 15 IIGS's with our current budget" or something along those lines. And with demand continuing for the little system, Apple probably thought "what the hell, let's keep it alive". You can probably thank John Sculley for keeping the Apple II alive as long as it was. I did always find it strange the IIe actually outlasted the IIGS, but then again the 2600 outlasted its successor by about a decade :)

Unlike the IIc, the IIGS was a hacker's dream with direct access to the motherboard without even the use of a screw driver (or any tools for that matter). I miss the old Apple.
 
Pictures or it didn't happen, right?

Here is a pic of the assembled unit but minus the mouse and 3.5 inch drive that also came with it. It's playing Apple Panic from an Apple II 5.25 inch disk. I was SURE I had some GS/OS disks somewhere but I can't find them. Not surprising really, as my software collection for my old machines is an uncatalogued mess! Anyway, I'll download GS/OS images from the web and try it out sometime.

You can see that both the screen and the keyboard need the retrobright treatment. Apart from that, it looks pretty good!

2012-08-18-myIIGS-before-deyellowing.jpg


Tez
 
Well, I found the disks. They were labelled System 6.0.1 and I assumed they were Mac disks. But no...they are PRODOS 6.0.1 GS/OS disks for the Apple IIGS. What's more they all work. I've just spent the evening playing with the very Mac-like interface and going through the original manuals I have. Nice! If I was going to leave this unit out I'd consider dropping in the SCSI card that came with the original battery-damaged one, and attaching one of my spare external SCSI drives! It will have to go back in it's box eventually though. I really need that display room.

Time for a few more photos, and to add this machine to my official collection pages on the web.

Tez
 
I think schools mostly stuck with the IIe because the IIGS was not only more expensive, but also had a somewhat flimsy keyboard that was easy to walk away with, while IIe's self-contained system unit could be chained down. Also I don't think Apple offered the IIGS with the IIe's larger and cheaper color composite monitor (since it wouldn't fit nicely atop the IIGS's smaller case).

When was a kid in school at the time, in the computer lab, typically the teacher had a IIGS at his/her desk and there were a handful of IIGS's (with color RGB monitors) for kids to use, but the rest of the room was full of IIe's of various ages and colors (from Plantium all the way back to non-"Enhanced" beige). As a result, we never used any IIGS-specific software.
 
Hi,
The NDAa, CDevs, Finder Extras, and Rsounds give it a personality that you shape. Not to mention the different opening screens, and screen savers and such. The plain system can be a bit boring and quiet.

Take Care
 
Congrats Tezza, the IIgs was always one of my favorite II's, though I have a special place in my collection for the //c since it was my first computer. I always wanted a IIgs when I was young, but they were too expensive, now that I am older and have one, it's one of my most used vintage computers.
 
Tezza, the IIgs's potential is illustrated by some of the IIgs games and software out there -- I would snag Deluxe Music Construction Set and listen to some of the example songs, and also download things you've already played like Bard's Tale and Tass Times in Tonetown to see the difference the color palette and sound chip could bring. Some ports of games were best on the IIgs, such as Life and Death, and the masterpiece Zany Golf (which was originally written for the IIgs specifically and then ported around). You'll need a 3.5" drive for your IIgs, though, and I didn't see one in your picture.

The IIgs has always been one of my favorite machines, but you have to remember I am a fan of doomed underdogs(*). While the IIgs had graphics that exceeded the Atari ST, and sound that exceeded the Amiga, it was severely hurt by CPU and video memory speed.

(*)I am also a champion of the Atari Lynx and IBM PCjr. You can keep laughing, it's ok ;)
 
THAT was it. Thanks Trixter. The comparison of the ST, GS, and Amiga (not sure what model --which I can't find right this minute due to work web filtering) was based on Zany Golf if you want to google around for it. I think also Another World also had some interest between the multiple models.
 
Out Of This World/Another World was slower on the IIgs, but it had the best music. The IIgs version is the only one I know of to offer various render sizes -- full-screen gets you about 3fps, but a smaller "letterboxed" size ran more smoothly around 10fps.
 
Sounds good. I'll have to seek out some of those games so I have examples to show off.

Yes, I do have a 3.5 drive for the IIGS. It just wasn't in the photo and neither was the mouse. Here is a new photo with the GS more dressed up that the initial one.

Apple%20IIGS-01-640x480.jpg


Maybe I won't bother with retrobright. It looks kinda ok in two-toned colour. :)

Tez
 
Yeah, everyone knows used apples turn yellow from the air. Example:
redrome04.jpg

New Apple

apple.jpg

Old apple.


...wow..that joke took way to long to edit.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I am kidding. Actually it's just the keyboard and screen that needs doing. The 3.5 drive LOOKS yellowed in the photo but actually it isn't? I'm not sure why it came out like that in the image.

I should try to source a RAM-card locally at some stage too. It seems to have been a very common addition.

Tez
 
Trixter said:
While the IIgs had graphics that exceeded the Atari ST, and sound that exceeded the Amiga, it was severely hurt by CPU and video memory speed.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was going to say. The IIGS had the graphics and sound to compete with the Amiga and ST, but a 2.8 MHz 65C618 just doesn't cut it compared to a 7.16 or 8 MHz 68000, especially without any hardware sprites or Blitter chip to help it.

Nonetheless, the stylish design and crisp RGB monitor (with the ability to change the colors in text mode!) make it my favorite for running Apple II+/IIe software.
 
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