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AT&T Unix PC... Worth an offer?

E

EddieDX4

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
542
Location
Puget Sound region, WA, USA
Not sure if any of you have been following the few AT&T UNIX PC's that have been popping up on eBay the past few weeks. There's one that I've been eyeing for some time now, mainly because it includes the original software diskettes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-AT-T-UN...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eae5c31d3

From the pictures, overall, it looks to be in decent shape. The keyboard has some bizzare stains that almost look like burn marks (they almost follow of a patter of a small electrical spark). I do have a few questions for the seller, but before I venture into contacting and consequently making an offer to the seller, I was wondering what the general consensus is on these units.

It doesn't seem there's much that can be done with them, and aside from having development libraries available to write my own applications, there's not much in the way of programs to experiment with. I would put this in the category of "interesting machines", and not in the same league as those that still can serve a purpose or be enjoyed (e.g. IBM PC/XT class machines, etc...)

One that looked much cleaner, sold by the original owner, but did not include the original disks, sold with a single bid of $149 a couple of weeks ago.

It does not seem like there's an easy gauge beyond that. With the "suspect" markings on the keyboard, and the overall closeup pictures showing a bit of wear (albeit minimal), I would "appraise" it a tad lower for the system, but the software ups the value. I think it pretty much breaks even. I'd be willing to pay a bit more. However, with the latest streak of delusional eBay sellers, I'm not sure the seller would accept an offer in the $150 ~ $200 range. At the same time, I'm not sure if it would be sensible for me to even pay that much.

Any thought/opinions on this? Any fellow UNIX PC enthusiasts in the forums that could shed some light on the usefulness (or uselessness) of these vintages?
 
I just sent a few questions on to the seller, including whether or not he's able to run any hard/fixed disk diagnostics from the diagnostics diskette, and also if he'd be willing to invoke the HDD park function from the diagnostic diskette as well.
 
I recently did a UNIX PC demo at HOPE (2600 magazine), I believe I posted a thread about it here on this forum a few weeks ago. It was a very popular exhibit, many attendees at HOPE used the UNIX PC or knew about it. I have a full library of software for the UNIX PC, mostly development stuff, but also the standard office aps and games. A version of MS Word was published for the UNIX PC. You could run Lotus and many other DOS aps on this machine too. It's a very usable system even today, I think they're very historical.
Bill
 
billdeg said:
I recently did a UNIX PC demo at HOPE (2600 magazine), I believe I posted a thread about it here on this forum a few weeks ago. It was a very popular exhibit, many attendees at HOPE used the UNIX PC or knew about it. I have a full library of software for the UNIX PC, mostly development stuff, but also the standard office aps and games. A version of MS Word was published for the UNIX PC. You could run Lotus and many other DOS aps on this machine too. It's a very usable system even today, I think they're very historical.
Bill
Click to expand...

Hi Bill,

Thank you for you input! I'm going to do a search for the thread about your demo, I'm very interested in reading up on it! I'm waiting for the seller to get back to me before submitting an offer.

I'd like to have one of these in my collection, and knowing that there's a few apps out there that could be useful today is reassuring.

I know these machines can read MS-DOS formatted floppies, but, how easy is it to create images of the original disks on a PC? I'd like to preserve the software for it, since I know these floppies won't last forever. Can they be imaged using a 360k drive on a PC? (I have one installed on my Gateway 2000 P5-133 XL now, which I'll be using to make disks for my Compaq Portable)
 
Note that there are 2 major model types of UNIX PC, the 7300 and the 3B1. There are also variations of each. The 3B1 with the 67MB hard drive is the beefiest of them.

Here are some links about the AT&T UNIX PC from my web site

http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=360
HOPE with AT&T 3B1 exhibit and pictures

http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=305
Thread about my UNIX PC 7300

http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=42
Thread about my UNIX PC 3B1

http://vintagecomputer.net/ATT/
Pictures of AT&T systems, repairs.
 
EddieDX4 said:
Hi Bill,

I know these machines can read MS-DOS formatted floppies, but, how easy is it to create images of the original disks on a PC? I'd like to preserve the software for it, since I know these floppies won't last forever. Can they be imaged using a 360k drive on a PC? (I have one installed on my Gateway 2000 P5-133 XL now, which I'll be using to make disks for my Compaq Portable)
Click to expand...

Check to see if the system you're interested in has the DOS emulation card installed, or you will not be able to easily read DOS disks in a UNIX PC. The add-on card was a hardware emulator with good but not complete DOS 3.1 compatibility. Some of the DOS commands are not available using the AT&T-supplied DOS diskette.

From DOS you can partition (in a manner of speaking) the system to connect with a drive called UNIX, which gives you the ability to send files to and from the UNIX system from the DOS emulator.

There is a GUI that comes with the UNIX PC. From there you can access utilities to copy disks, etc. All of the Foundation disks (OS build) I assume are preserved on the web. When you turn on the UNIX PC and you make it to the login prompt, type "tutor" [enter]. It should take you directory to the AT&T Office GUI. From there you can run and install programs. Tutor user does not have admin privs however, you'll have to log in as root or the equivalent and then run uA (IIRC) from root to get to the admin utilities provided by the GUI.

Rather than using the disk drive, most people with a UNIX PC were moving files through the modem or ethernet ports, via Kermit, etc.

Bill
 
You can back up UNIX PC diskettes in native format using ImageDisk, which does work with a 360 KB PC drive. Or you can dd them into a file using the UNIX PC and transfer them over the Ethernet/serial port to another machine. It should be interesting to see what sort of software comes with it!
 
billdeg said:
Check to see if the system you're interested in has the DOS emulation card installed, or you will not be able to easily read DOS disks in a UNIX PC. The add-on card was a hardware emulator with good but not complete DOS 3.1 compatibility. Some of the DOS commands are not available using the AT&T-supplied DOS diskette.

From DOS you can partition (in a manner of speaking) the system to connect with a drive called UNIX, which gives you the ability to send files to and from the UNIX system from the DOS emulator.

There is a GUI that comes with the UNIX PC. From there you can access utilities to copy disks, etc. All of the Foundation disks (OS build) I assume are preserved on the web. When you turn on the UNIX PC and you make it to the login prompt, type "tutor" [enter]. It should take you directory to the AT&T Office GUI. From there you can run and install programs. Tutor user does not have admin privs however, you'll have to log in as root or the equivalent and then run uA (IIRC) from root to get to the admin utilities provided by the GUI.

Rather than using the disk drive, most people with a UNIX PC were moving files through the modem or ethernet ports, via Kermit, etc.

Bill
Click to expand...

I'm afraid the seller might not know enough to answer that question (as it stands, I've yet to receive a response to my more basic questions), but I do own a pair of Phone Line Simulators that I could use to connect the machine up to another via modem and transfer files using kermit.

Ethernet ports you say... These machines had Ethernet as well?

I'm checking out your site for more information. It's great to have resources such as yourself in the forums. :-D
 
Yes, there was at some point an Ethernet module made for the expansion slot, but good luck finding one! You're far more likely to find a 1 mbps StarLAN card. You don't need a phone line simulator though -- connect the UNIX PC to another machine's serial port and transfer files that way. You'll also not be limited to the 1200 baud internal modem's speed. You'll need a null modem cable or adapter, but those are cheap to buy and easy to make, if you don't already have one.
 
glitch said:
Yes, there was at some point an Ethernet module made for the expansion slot, but good luck finding one! You're far more likely to find a 1 mbps StarLAN card. You don't need a phone line simulator though -- connect the UNIX PC to another machine's serial port and transfer files that way. You'll also not be limited to the 1200 baud internal modem's speed. You'll need a null modem cable or adapter, but those are cheap to buy and easy to make, if you don't already have one.
Click to expand...

I happen to keep a null modem adapter handy for such occasions... Good call! Well, we'll see if I end up getting it at all... No response from the seller, yet, and I don't want to submit an offer to stress about it for 48 hours, only for it to expire on its own instead of at least being declined. I am also not paying $400 plus $55 shipping for it. :)
 
I have 2 UNIX PCs and 1 set of docs/disks. I may be willing to part with one of the machines and copy the software & docs for you if interested. Most of the documentation is 3 hole loose-leaf, and I could feed it through my HP auto-duplex sheet fed scanner to make a bunch of PDFs for ya. I had been planning on doing that eventually anyway.

I'm not looking to make a profit, just don't want to lose anything. I acquired the first machine in the mid-90s from a salvage shop in Portland for ~$20 IIRC, and the 2nd in mid '09 (for ~$140 shipped) just because it was sold with all the disks and books. So, I don't need the second machine, and would love it to go to someone interested.

Both machines are 20MB and have 1MB ram, however one has the full 1MB onboard, and the other has only 512KB onboard with the other 512KB on an expansion card. No other expansions are installed, but both are (or were last I checked, will boot up both soon to verify) fully functional and loaded with 3.51 system software.

I can post or email pics if interested. Both are in pretty good shape with no serious discoloration or blemishes, other than the 512/512 machine having some engraving on it from the university it came from. I'll have to look, but I seem to remember it being a WA state school.

I think the UNIX PC has quite a bit of class, and I remember being excited when I saw one in the movie "The Secret of My Success" back in the day.

That 512/512 UNIX PC was my very first taste of Unix and was my motivation to get interested in Linux and FreeBSD in HS. After getting it home and starting it up, my dad and I spent the longest time trying to figure out how to log into the thing, before learning about "root" from a guy at our church at the time. The internet wasn't what it is today in the mid-90's, but I did learn about the "tutor" login, and managed to get to a shell prompt from tutor. The root login was password protected, and we didn't have the password, but the UNIX PCs version of Unix has next to no security, and I managed to copy the /etc/passwd file to a new file, edit the root password out, and then somehow copied it back. I don't remember if it was exactly that easy, but that was the gist. Was amazed at my "mad hacking skills" and at the machine's terrible security :p

Anyway, just let me know if you are interested in the machine and/or copies of the disks and docs.

__
Trevor
 
Last edited:
Lord Moz said:
I have 2 UNIX PCs and 1 set of docs/disks. I may be willing to part with one of the machines and copy the software & docs for you if interested. Most of the documentation is 3 hole loose-leaf, and I could feed it through my HP auto-duplex sheet fed scanner to make a bunch of PDFs for ya. I had been planning on doing that eventually anyway.

I'm not looking to make a profit, just don't want to lose anything. I acquired the first machine in the mid-90s from a salvage shop in Portland for ~$20 IIRC, and the 2nd in mid '09 (for ~$140 shipped) just because it was sold with all the disks and books. So, I don't need the second machine, and would love it to go to someone interested.

Both machines are 20MB and have 1MB ram, however one has the full 1MB onboard, and the other has only 512KB onboard with the other 512KB on an expansion card. No other expansions are installed, but both are (or were last I checked, will boot up both soon to verify) fully functional and loaded with 3.51 system software.

I can post or email pics if interested. Both are in pretty good shape with no serious discoloration or blemishes, other than the 512/512 machine having some engraving on it from the university it came from. I'll have to look, but I seem to remember it being a WA state school.

I think the UNIX PC has quite a bit of class, and I remember being excited when I saw one in the movie "The Secret of My Success" back in the day.

That 512/512 UNIX PC was my very first taste of Unix and was my motivation to get interested in Linux and FreeBSD in HS. After getting it home and starting it up, my dad and I spent the longest time trying to figure out how to log into the thing, before learning about "root" from a guy at our church at the time. The internet wasn't what it is today in the mid-90's, but I did learn about the "tutor" login, and managed to get to a shell prompt from tutor. The root login was password protected, and we didn't have the password, but the UNIX PCs version of Unix has next to no security, and I managed to copy the /etc/passwd file to a new file, edit the root password out, and then somehow copied it back. I don't remember if it was exactly that easy, but that was the gist. Was amazed at my "mad hacking skills" and at the machine's terrible security :p

Anyway, just let me know if you are interested in the machine and/or copies of the disks and docs.

__
Trevor
Click to expand...

Thanks, Trevor! I might take you up on that offer, if the eBay one falls through the cracks (which is looking like as of yet...no response from the seller).

There's a lot more people knowledgeable on UNIX PCs in the forums than I anticipated. It is a great thing.
 
So I had missed it but the seller did respond to me... Stated that he did not run the HDD diagnostics and have not tested HDD functionality (and, made it sound as if no further testing will be performed).

However, he did offer to run any HDD heads park function off the diagnostics disk if I were to buy it and sent him the instructions. (hmmm...so why can't he run through the HDD diagnostics?)

I have a feeling it has a dead HDD (otherwise, why would he be booting off the diagnostics disk, and not even running the HDD diags?) So I'm not sure I want to take the gamble. The amount I'd offer is much lower than the asking price (I was thinking more in line with the really clean one that sold recently). I have a feeling this might offend this seller.

So, I think I might skip. The included original disks, though, seem enticing.
 
Yeah, original disks are always fun to have although those disks I think all come with manuals IIRC so while it's probably a nice set of software (actually if the seller doesn't get a sale they might consider breaking them up and lowering the initial bids) they may come again. I have no idea how common the systems are. I bought mine a few years ago at a ham fest. I don't remember the price (I completely assumed they would be asking a fortune for it) but it was a good deal (maybe $120) but it was up and working. Only after I was already ecstatically getting ready to carry it to my truck did he whip out a box "Oh, this goes with it too" and original manuals/software. It was great lol (one of those few great grab stories I have). So it may or may not hurt their feelings, but if you want throw them a low offer and maybe they'll realize you were the only offer/bid and reconsider or skip the risk and perhaps Trevor is your good save here. The gentleman I bought it from also was more so wanting to have it end up in good hands so we both lucked out as well. Even while I carried it out to the truck I was stopped several times by folks asking and commenting about how neat of a system it was.
 
barythrin said:
Yeah, original disks are always fun to have although those disks I think all come with manuals IIRC so while it's probably a nice set of software (actually if the seller doesn't get a sale they might consider breaking them up and lowering the initial bids) they may come again. I have no idea how common the systems are. I bought mine a few years ago at a ham fest. I don't remember the price (I completely assumed they would be asking a fortune for it) but it was a good deal (maybe $120) but it was up and working. Only after I was already ecstatically getting ready to carry it to my truck did he whip out a box "Oh, this goes with it too" and original manuals/software. It was great lol (one of those few great grab stories I have). So it may or may not hurt their feelings, but if you want throw them a low offer and maybe they'll realize you were the only offer/bid and reconsider or skip the risk and perhaps Trevor is your good save here. The gentleman I bought it from also was more so wanting to have it end up in good hands so we both lucked out as well. Even while I carried it out to the truck I was stopped several times by folks asking and commenting about how neat of a system it was.
Click to expand...

Love the great grab stories! That is the best case scenario... A good deal, plus documentation to boot. :)
 
If the hard drive /is/ dead, you can replace it with any old MFM drive. The hard drive setup/format program allows you to specify the C/H/S of the drive if it's not in the lookup table (they have several common drives pre-configured). I plan on replacing the dead 20 MB drive in my UNIX PC with a Seagate Wren II when I've got the time.
 
glitch said:
If the hard drive /is/ dead, you can replace it with any old MFM drive. The hard drive setup/format program allows you to specify the C/H/S of the drive if it's not in the lookup table (they have several common drives pre-configured). I plan on replacing the dead 20 MB drive in my UNIX PC with a Seagate Wren II when I've got the time.
Click to expand...

That's really good to know... Makes me consider it even more. I keep getting cold fit just as I'm about to confirm the offer, so I haven't submitted it. Maybe I should listen to my instinct and forget about it.
 
EddieDX4 said:
That's really good to know... Makes me consider it even more. I keep getting cold fit just as I'm about to confirm the offer, so I haven't submitted it. Maybe I should listen to my instinct and forget about it.
Click to expand...

"What's the matter McFly, are ya CHICKEN?" :p *revs engine* :cool:

__
Trevor
 
I have offered several low-ball offers and have been very surprised with the good outcomes from them! However, I've also had those experiences that make me wonder how crazy people really are. I submitted a request for old telephones a long time ago into a section of our local newspaper called "Good Neighbors." A guy called me saying he had some wall-mounted magneto phones. I was really excited! He described them as being in good shape, so I posed the question: "how much?" He said some extraordinary amount (maybe $1000), and when I explained to him that I was only 14 or so, he said "Oh." and hung up the phone!!

When I posted an ad for vintage computers, a guy called with an original Compaq portable. He originally said $100, but after I explained that I like to find old things and restore them (I rarely say "collector," as that would imply I have money! Haha!), he said I could take it for $15. However, he was about an hour drive, which was too far away for me. Oh, well!

I happen to be in Mürren, Switzerland right now, and two days ago I was in Interlaken. There was an antique jewelry store across the street from where I was staying. I rang the doorbell, and the lady comes to the door and asks if she could help me. I said I'd just like to look around. She says it's by appointment only. I can't imagine in such a touristy area a store like that surviving very long, but she seems to have been there for a long time. I asked her if she had any antique watches, and she looked at me like I was an idiot and explained that this was a jewelry store. Hmph.

Sorry for the off-topic-ness. But I feel better after saying that! :) Good luck with the UNIX, whichever you decide to get!

Kyle
 
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