Different Emulex UC07/08 versions for PDP11 and VAX ? ( UC07/08 vs. UC07/08 III )

[Wildfire]

Hello Folks,

i am in the process of testing some cards.
In the UC06/07/08 manual rev. H is written that there are two different versions:

UC07/08 for PDP11 systems
UC07/08 III for VAX systems

The III version for VAX systems has those big metal handles attached for installation in other than BA23/123 style housings.

So, besides those handles - has anybody here installed the "normal" version in an VAX system and also
the III Version in an PDP11 system and got it up and running without problems ?

And is it known if the firmware versions for the "normal" and III versions are different or not ?

TIA

 

[Michael Robinson]

I have three of these kind of boards, of both versions.

1. I have a UC18, a dual-ported UNIBUS version in my PDP-11/34. It works great with a SCSI2SD. I usually run RT-11, though have also played with RSTS/E. I keep meaning to attach a SCSI tape drive to the other port, but haven't gotten to that yet.

For some reason, the UC18 doesn't cooperate with my PDP-11/45, though not for lack of trying.

2. I have a UC07 III (with the big metal handles) hanging off the auxillary QBUS on my VAXStation 3520. I can confirm that it does *not* work on the PDP-11/23, which is consistent with the documentation. I usually run OpenBSD on the VAXStation, and while this detects the UC07, it cannot use it for some reason even though it's supported in the kernel. NetBSD apparently also supports it, but I haven't been able to get boot from the UC07... though I haven't tried very hard.

3. I have a UC07, the single-ported QBUS version in the dual-height board, in my PDP-11/23. This too runs nicely with the SCSI2SD, and again I mostly run RT-11. I can confirm that the PDP-11 version of the UC07 does not work in my VAXStation.

Regards,
Michael

 

[Dare]

I have a UC07 that I have used in a QBUS PDP-11 with various CPU configurations (M8186, M8189, M8192) and in a QSUB MicroVAX (M7620 / KA650). In all cases I booted some form of BSD (2.9, 2.11 and 4.3).

 

[Wildfire]

I have three of these kind of boards, of both versions.


2. I have a UC07 III (with the big metal handles) hanging off the auxillary QBUS on my VAXStation 3520. I can confirm that it does *not* work on the PDP-11/23, which is consistent with the documentation. I usually run OpenBSD on the VAXStation, and while this detects the UC07, it cannot use it for some reason even though it's supported in the kernel. NetBSD apparently also supports it, but I haven't been able to get boot from the UC07... though I haven't tried very hard.

3. I have a UC07, the single-ported QBUS version in the dual-height board, in my PDP-11/23. This too runs nicely with the SCSI2SD, and again I mostly run RT-11. I can confirm that the PDP-11 version of the UC07 does not work in my VAXStation.

Regards,
Michael

Thanks for sharing,
interesting.
For the UC07 III it may be that one needs the original cable and i/o header for the other end which is shown in the manual.
Another hobbyist figured out that if you just put an cable adapter in the metal handles side port with 50-Pin connector it does not work with drives.
Add a second adapter connected to the i/o header outside for the drive side and it works.
I thought that Emulex wanted to sell their own cables etc. so they changed the normal scsi pinout to their own.

It would be intersting to know what must be done to get an VAX UC controller to work in an PDP11 and an PDP11 one to work in an VAX system...

Best regards

 

[wa2flq]

I've used the UC07 (no special handles) with 11/23, 11/73, MVII and K650 in various backplanes - BA23/BA213/H9276. They were rev G and had G134R firmware. Both physical drives and SCSI2SD worked. I used VMS7.3 RT11 5.x and TSX+. Other than watch the SCSI termination, I used generic SCSI cables. In VMS 5.x the SCSI driver was technically "picky" about the SCSI drives and media replacement settings.

 

[Wildfire]

I've used the UC07 (no special handles) with 11/23, 11/73, MVII and K650 in various backplanes - BA23/BA213/H9276. They were rev G and had G134R firmware. Both physical drives and SCSI2SD worked. I used VMS7.3 RT11 5.x and TSX+. Other than watch the SCSI termination, I used generic SCSI cables. In VMS 5.x the SCSI driver was technically "picky" about the SCSI drives and media replacement settings.

Thanks for sharing.
I assume your UC07 is an dual board - or the quad board with only one controller equipped ?
So eventually there must be the last G134R (typo: 143 ??) firmware on it to run also with VAX systems...

I am not sure about this, i have to dig the boards out; not found up to now:
imo i assume to have an UC08 III version without the big metal handles (aka the normal PDP11 version written in the manual),
i'll have to try this out in an PDP11 system.

 

[wa2flq]

So eventually there must be the last G134R (typo: 143 ??) firmware on it to run also with VAX systems...

Yes sorry - G143R dual board. The UC08 have two independent controllers sharing a board and need a Q/Q bus slot. The UC07 quad is a single populated UC08 with a few bus jumpers for the second Q bus slot. The III models have additional electrical emission suppression. I would be surprised if the controllers function differently on any of these variants using the same firmware.

 

[czunit]

Hm. Out of curiousity why would a controller work on a Vax but not a pdp11? Aside from say boot code or management code aren't they RQDX3 compatible MSCP controllers?

 

[Michael Robinson]

Hm. Out of curiousity why would a controller work on a Vax but not a pdp11? Aside from say boot code or management code aren't they RQDX3 compatible MSCP controllers?

That is what I would have thought, and while the UCxx manual (on bitsavers) doesn't outright say that the UC07-III will not work in a QBUS PDP-11, it implies that there's some difference. On page 4-3, it seems to imply that the difference could be mostly physical, stating

There are two versions of both the' UC07 and Ue08, one for use in LSI-II and MicroVAX II applications and the other for use in MircoVAX III systems. The MicroVAX III version has a substantial "handle" on the outside edge of the board and is called a UC07-III or UC08-III. The configuration of both the plain and -III versions are the same.

The manual is pretty consistent about maintaining that the UC07-III is "for" the MicroVAX III, so take that for what it's worth.

On a previous thread, the binary dump of the G143R firmware was shared. I had a look at this with a disassembler in hand. Most of the contents are code for the on-board Intel 8051 processor. There is definitely some PDP-11 code that appears to be DMA'ed into various places for either boot or the FRD (Firmware Resident Diagnostics). I looked for but didn't find, analogous code for VAX, though I assume it's in there somewhere.

The PDP-11 code on the G143R firmware is a bit convoluted and hard to follow, so I cannot say I've figured it all out. Intel 8051 is not my "native tongue" so it's taken me a while to find my way around. And the binary blobs for the different machines are interspered throughout, which makes it hard to discern exactly what's where. That and the fact that Intel 8051 is "usually" in hex while PDP-11 is "usually" in octal made this exploration a somewhat tedious exercise...

Ultimately, this would suggest that the UC07-III ought to work in a QBUS PDP-11, but as I said, I have had no luck making my unit cooperate with my PDP-11/23, even though it's happy in my MicroVAX 3520. I could be doing something wrong!

 

[gslick]

On a previous thread, the binary dump of the G143R firmware was shared. I had a look at this with a disassembler in hand. Most of the contents are code for the on-board Intel 8051 processor. There is definitely some PDP-11 code that appears to be DMA'ed into various places for either boot or the FRD (Firmware Resident Diagnostics). I looked for but didn't find, analogous code for VAX, though I assume it's in there somewhere.

Yes, there is also code in the G143R firmware that is DMA'd into a VAX host. The binary code is identified in the disassembly of the firmware attached below. I probably disassembled that into VAX code at some time, although I can't find that handy at the moment.

In both the PDP-11 and VAX cases the host side code is a simple connection between the host console port and the configuration utility running on the UC07 firmware.

AFAIK there is no difference between the PDP-11 and MicroVAX versions of the UC07 other than the physical mounting bracket differences. In reality you should be able to take a BA213 or BA215 chassis and swap the MicroVAX CPU and memory cards for PDP-11 CPU and memory cards and use a MicroVAX version of the UC07. I have done that with S-handle versions of CMD CQD-223/TM SCSI controllers in a BA215 with the MicroVAX CPU and memory replaced by an S-handle M7554 KDJ11-D/S PDP-11/53 CPU (which was originally a DECserver 550 CPU),

 

[gslick]

I just noticed in the disassembled code attached in the previous reply the "27Eh - 2D3h" in this comment should be "27Eh - 3D3h": "VAX host code DMA copied to 27Eh - 2D3h, length 156h"

Pasting those binary values into SIMH VAX and using it to disassemble that as VAX code results in the following below. I don't know VAX assembly to know if this looks like reasonable VAX code.

I have seen some references to location 20040008 in VAX firmware being PC$MSG_OUT_NOLF_R4 and location 2004000C being CP$READ_WITH_PRMPT_R4 so that makes some sense for VAX host side code that is doing console I/O.

sim> d 80 FD310311
sim> d 84 0131F801

sim> d 27E 16110000
sim> d 282 F9AF0188
sim> d 286 00038FD0
sim> d 28A 0C9F8000
sim> d 28E DA200880
sim> d 292 0008008F
sim> d 296 8FD00400
sim> d 29A 80000002
sim> d 29E 0880089F
sim> d 2A2 1FDA0120
sim> d 2A6 53EFDE12
sim> d 2AA 51000001
sim> d 2AE 02008FD0
sim> d 2B2 D0520000
sim> d 2B6 52F58100
sim> d 2BA 008FD0FA
sim> d 2BE 55200000
sim> d 2C2 8FB365B4
sim> d 2C6 02A50800
sim> d 2CA 8FB0F813
sim> d 2CE 02A53003
sim> d 2D2 01008FB1
sim> d 2D6 F81202A5
sim> d 2DA 46008FB0
sim> d 2DE 8FB102A5
sim> d 2E2 02A50400
sim> d 2E6 8FB0F812
sim> d 2EA 02A50400
sim> d 2EE 138EAF95
sim> d 2F2 5001D01B
sim> d 2F6 00089F16
sim> d 2FA 18912004
sim> d 2FE 31031250
sim> d 302 00EF005E
sim> d 306 D0505007
sim> d 30A 2A115250
sim> d 30E E15120DB
sim> d 312 DB4D5107
sim> d 316 00EF5221
sim> d 31A 91525207
sim> d 31E 16121352
sim> d 322 E15020DB
sim> d 326 DBF95007
sim> d 32A 00EF5021
sim> d 32E 91505007
sim> d 332 EC121150
sim> d 336 8FA82A11
sim> d 33A B0520200
sim> d 33E B002A552
sim> d 342 B35202A5
sim> d 346 5202008F
sim> d 34A 8FCAF513
sim> d 34E 00000200
sim> d 352 A552B052
sim> d 356 02A5B002
sim> d 35A 008FB352
sim> d 35E F5125202
sim> d 362 5202A5B0
sim> d 366 01008FB3
sim> d 36A B0811352
sim> d 36E B002A552
sim> d 372 B35202A5
sim> d 376 5201008F
sim> d 37A 8FAAF512
sim> d 37E B0520100
sim> d 382 EF02A552
sim> d 386 52520700
sim> d 38A CF953813
sim> d 38E 2113FEEF
sim> d 392 36EF5290
sim> d 396 DE000000
sim> d 39A 000028EF
sim> d 39E 9F165000
sim> d 3A2 2004000C
sim> d 3A6 5202A5B0
sim> d 3AA 01008FB3
sim> d 3AE 11F51352
sim> d 3B2 5122DBBA
sim> d 3B6 F95107E1
sim> d 3BA DB2352DA
sim> d 3BE 07E15122
sim> d 3C2 2731F951
sim> d 3C6 000001FF
sim> d 3CA 0003CF00
sim> d 3CE 00000000
sim> d 3D2 00000000

sim> e -m 80-87
80:     BRB 85
82:     BRW 282
85:     ASHP #31,#1,#0,#0,#0,#0
sim> e -m 27E-3D3
27E:    HALT
27F:    HALT
280:    BRB 298
282:    BISB2 #1,27F
286:    MOVL #80000003,@#2008800C
291:    MTPR #800,#4
298:    MOVL #80000002,@#20088008
2A3:    NOP
2A4:    MTPR #1F,#12
2A7:    MOVAL 400,R1
2AE:    MOVL #200,R2
2B5:    MOVL #0,(R1)+
2B8:    SOBGTR R2,2B5
2BB:    MOVL #20000000,R5
2C2:    CLRW (R5)
2C4:    BITW #800,2(R5)
2CA:    BEQL 2C4
2CC:    MOVW #3003,2(R5)
2D2:    CMPW #100,2(R5)
2D8:    BNEQ 2D2
2DA:    MOVW #4600,2(R5)
2E0:    CMPW #400,2(R5)
2E6:    BNEQ 2E0
2E8:    MOVW #400,2(R5)
2EE:    TSTB 27F
2F1:    BEQL 30E
2F3:    MOVL #1,R0
2F6:    JSB @#20040008
2FC:    CMPB #18,R0
2FF:    BNEQ 304
301:    BRW 362
304:    EXTZV #0,#7,R0,R0
309:    MOVL R0,R2
30C:    BRB 338
30E:    MFPR #20,R1
311:    BBC #7,R1,362
315:    MFPR #21,R2
318:    EXTZV #0,#7,R2,R2
31D:    CMPB R2,#13
320:    BNEQ 338
322:    MFPR #20,R0
325:    BBC #7,R0,322
329:    MFPR #21,R0
32C:    EXTZV #0,#7,R0,R0
331:    CMPB R0,#11
334:    BNEQ 322
336:    BRB 362
338:    BISW2 #200,R2
33D:    MOVW R2,2(R5)
341:    MOVW 2(R5),R2
345:    BITW #200,R2
34A:    BEQL 341
34C:    BICL2 #200,R2
353:    MOVW R2,2(R5)
357:    MOVW 2(R5),R2
35B:    BITW #200,R2
360:    BNEQ 357
362:    MOVW 2(R5),R2
366:    BITW #100,R2
36B:    BEQL 2EE
36D:    MOVW R2,2(R5)
371:    MOVW 2(R5),R2
375:    BITW #100,R2
37A:    BNEQ 371
37C:    BICW2 #100,R2
381:    MOVW R2,2(R5)
385:    EXTZV #0,#7,R2,R2
38A:    BEQL 3C4
38C:    TSTB 27F
390:    BEQL 3B3
392:    MOVB R2,3CF
399:    MOVAL 3C7,R0
3A0:    JSB @#2004000C
3A6:    MOVW 2(R5),R2
3AA:    BITW #100,R2
3AF:    BEQL 3A6
3B1:    BRB 36D
3B3:    MFPR #22,R1
3B6:    BBC #7,R1,3B3
3BA:    MTPR R2,#23
3BD:    MFPR #22,R1
3C0:    BBC #7,R1,3BD
3C4:    BRW 2EE
3C7:    NOP
3C8:    HALT
3C9:    HALT
3CA:    HALT
3CB:    CASEL #3,#0,#0
3CF:    HALT
3D0:    HALT
3D1:    HALT
3D2:    HALT
3D3:    HALT