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Duplicate XT interface drives?

rcourtem

rcourtem

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
17
Location
Western Colorado
Hello all:

I have several pieces of computer driven automotive test equipment from the late 80's (NEC V20 powered). I'd like to clone the hard drives (Seagate ST-351A/X jumpered for XT, ST-325X). I tried jumpering the ST-351 for AT, connecting it to a PC running DOS and reading the drive, but no luck. What would I need to do this?

Thanks,
 
Is it just DOS? So a file system copy should be fine; you cold even use pkzip and span it across floppies. To unpack, partition and format the new drive (format /s) then just extract the archives.

Other options might include using an XT/IDE board or an 8-bit NIC and copying across the network.
 
I assume it's DOS based-several splash screens appear during start up with Microsoft copyright notices, etc. However, to access the drive (which is not in a computer, it's part of a piece of automotive test equipment) I still need a computer with an XT interface, such as an IBM 5160, correct? I do have an older WIN98 machine with ISA and PCI slots.

pearce_jj said:
Is it just DOS? So a file system copy should be fine; you cold even use pkzip and span it across floppies. To unpack, partition and format the new drive (format /s) then just extract the archives.

Other options might include using an XT/IDE board or an 8-bit NIC and copying across the network.
Click to expand...
 
Well 8-bit cards will work in 16-bit slots, if that's what you're asking. But often drive and controller must exist as a pair to read the disk. So then it will depend where the controller ROM is..., if it's on the controller and is standard then it shouldn't be too much problem.

Does this automotive machine have a floppy drive? If so, can it boot from it?
 
The machine does have a floppy drive and will boot from it, but only to install new software, which I don't have. There is no way to access the file system, etc from the machine. There is a separate interface board in the machine (hard drive and 800K floppy) and there's some sort of custom BIOS on this board.

I do have the repair manual for the machine, and it does mention that the hard drive has the controller built in, so I may be in luck here. I was hoping I could connect the drive to an old IBM XT machine and somehow duplicate the drive via DOS to a second hard drive. Am Ion the right track?

I appreciate the help. I'm not a hard core computer type, but I can follow directions.



pearce_jj said:
Well 8-bit cards will work in 16-bit slots, if that's what you're asking. But often drive and controller must exist as a pair to read the disk. So then it will depend where the controller ROM is..., if it's on the controller and is standard then it shouldn't be too much problem.

Does this automotive machine have a floppy drive? If so, can it boot from it?
Click to expand...
 
OK, it sounds like it might have an 8-bit IDE drive. I think the next step should be to disassemble the system and find out what the existing drive is. A word of caution; it's likely that the drive doesn't auto-park, so be VERY careful as you move it.
 
The drive is a Seagate ST325X, XT interface.

pearce_jj said:
OK, it sounds like it might have an 8-bit IDE drive. I think the next step should be to disassemble the system and find out what the existing drive is. A word of caution; it's likely that the drive doesn't auto-park, so be VERY careful as you move it.
Click to expand...
 
is it an st325x or a/x? if it's just the x you won't be able to put him in to a mode modern machine to copy data off, but if you have an 8-bit ide controller you should be able to do that, there are those that know more bout this one than myself, but i'd put in a st-351a/x jumpered for xt setup, and put that in, to get the data off the 325x, didn't the controller on some tandy machines use xt-ide drives? if you have one of those, you may be in luck.
 
I have never seen an ST-325A/X, although Seagate's documentation claimed it exists. My Tandy 1000RL originally came with an ST-325X, which is a 20 megabyte IDE-XT drive. It will not work with any ordinary ATA/IDE-AT controller, nor with the misnamed "XT-IDE" controller advertised on this forum (which is really ATA/IDE-AT on an 8-bit XT bus, so I guess you could call it "ATA-XT"?).

Therefore, the ST-325X requires Seagate's own 8-bit ISA ST-05X controller, or a compatible IDE-XT contoller, such as those made by Western Digital, or built onto the motherboard of some later Tandy 1000 models, such as the 1000RL and 1000TL/2 (Tandy called it a "SmartDrive interface").
 
I have several ST-325X drives and one ST-351A/X, jumpered for XT. I could get the data off of either one.

When you say "controller", do you mean the ISA adapter card? The controller is built into the drives, correct?

If I find a Seagate or Western Digital 8-bit adapter card, can I use that in my WIN98 machine (16 bit ISA slots) to access the data on the hard drives within the Windows GUI or within DOS?

Thanks,
 
rcourtem said:
When you say "controller", do you mean the ISA adapter card? The controller is built into the drives, correct?
Click to expand...
Yes.

If I find a Seagate or Western Digital 8-bit adapter card, can I use that in my WIN98 machine (16 bit ISA slots) to access the data on the hard drives within the Windows GUI or within DOS?
Click to expand...
It should work, but you may need to experiment with the jumper settings to prevent the 8-bit IDE-XT card from conflicting with the computer's own IDE-AT (ATA) drives.
 
There's an IBM XT computer listed on the local Craigslist with a hard drive installed. Can I just use that to access the data on my XT drive and copy it to a 2nd XT drive?
 
IBM XT's came with MFM hard drives.
From what I can tell you have an 8 bit IDE drive (nicknamed IDE XT because the IBM XT had an 8 bit bus too).

What I'd try (doesn't mean it'll work, just try) is on your Windows 98 machine:

- move the primary IDE cable so that it is in the secondary IDE connector on the motherboard
- go in to BIOS and disable the primary
- set BIOS to boot off the master on the seconday
- install 8 bit IDE card
- load BIOS and try to setup drive as primary
- cross fingers?

So many ideas but so dependant on so many things :/ kind of thing I'd spend a day just trying different options.

(Can't guarantee anything above, just throwing up ideas)
 
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IIRC the Commodore Colt (US Market model of the PC10-III) has a built in XT-IDE controller. That may be an option if as well.
 
The problem is the cost, hence the existence of the various XTIDE projects (which won't work, at least not without a custom BIOS).
 
I'm not having much luck finding an 8 bit card to use an 8 bit hard drive in a 16 bot slot. Most of the stuff I see is for goi g the other way: using a modern 16 bit IDE ATA drive in an older machine with 8 bit slots.

How about a vintage machine that uses the XT IDE interface and can handle two separate hard drives? Is there such a machine?
 
Yep, that has been suggested to you already. Very few machines came with XT-IDE standard however, the only one that comes to mind is the Commodore PC-20 as mentioned (although more exist no doubt).

I did a search for '8bit IDE card' and found this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XT-8bit-IDE...296?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b17c42a0

It makes my teeth crawl seeing people charge so much for untested gear, but I guess thats how it is.
I spent $US180 today on untested gear simply because I have no choice, wasn't impressed but what ya gonna do eh.

Thing is, even if you bought the card above, I can't gurantee success - but that is an 8 bit IDE card for 8 bit IDE drives.
 
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SpidersWeb said:
Yep, that has been suggested to you already. Very few machines came with XT-IDE standard however, the only one that comes to mind is the Commodore PC-20 as mentioned (although more exist no doubt).
Click to expand...

Tandy's name for IDE-XT was "SmartDrive", and the Tandy 1000RL, 1000RLX, 1000TL/2, and 1000TL/3 came with a built-in SmartDrive controller.

More info:
http://www.oldskool.org/guides/tvdog/1kfaq.html#II.D.1

I did a search for '8bit IDE card' and found this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XT-8bit-IDE...296?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b17c42a0
Click to expand...

That is MiniScribe's IDE-XT controller, designed for use with their 8225XT and 8450XT drives. As to whether it would work with a Seagate 325X drive, I have no idea. I do know that the Seagate and Western Digital IDE-XT drives and controllers are mostly compatible with each other, but I have not gotten my hands on either of the MiniScribe IDE-XT drives.
 
Assuming I can find a suitable Tandy 1000 series or Commodore PC series, how can I copy the data on one ST-325X drive to another? The Commodore and Tandy machines have a connection for only one hard drive and it appears that XT drives cannot be chained. Is there some way within DOS to grab a half MB at a time, save it to a floppy, and then write it to the new drive?

What I am trying to do is to duplicate the XT drive. There is no more than 20MB of data on the drive, probably less.

Thanks for all the suggestions,
 
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