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Finally got my long awaited ][, need help identifying rev

RWallmow

RWallmow

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Oct 19, 2006
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Location
Anoka, MN USA
Finally took delivery of my long awaited Apple ][, from what I can tell it does NOT look to be all original, case/keyboard look much older than power supply and motherboard, but I am far from an expert on this so I am going to post some photos here to see what others think.
Also I got a "rainbow cable" Disk ][ SN A2M0003-24469, ROM Card (missing D8 ROM), and copy of "Apple ][ Basic programming manual", but NO Disk ][ card (I have a few spares though).
It looks to me that at some point in time someone had installed a RAM/Language card due to the missing RAM IC, so I will have to replace that chip, or get a hold of another RAM/language card (for testing I will borrow the language card from my ][+).
I have not yet tried to power any of it up yet, its quite dirty and I will be cleaning it up before I even attempt a power up.


IMG_0442.jpgIMG_0443.jpgIMG_0444.jpgIMG_0445.jpgIMG_0447.jpg
 
View under keyboard (2nd post due to 5 photo limit on posts)
IMG_0448.jpg

You can really see the layer of crud on the motherboard in this shot, this is why I am NOT powering on until its cleaned up, you could say this one is a "barn fresh" find ;-)
 
It looks a II+ board to me, or a very late II that doesn't match the case, probably it was upgraded at some point.
Datecode (23rd week of 1980) and black edge card connectors without flanges suggest a II+ board.
My II is s/n 20189 and it has dark green connectors with flanges and datecode is 7908.
 
Gabriele72 said:
It looks a II+ board to me, or a very late II that doesn't match the case, probably it was upgraded at some point.
Datecode (23rd week of 1980) and black edge card connectors without flanges suggest a II+ board.
My II is s/n 20189 and it has dark green connectors with flanges and datecode is 7908.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I knew the board was 1980 from its date code, which is why I assumed it wasn't original to that low SN case, also the power supply is an Astec Dual 110/220 voltage, which even my fairly high SN (490,xxx), and what I think is a 1983 date code ][+ doesn't have, so I am assuming that's even newer? My ][+ has a significantly different motherboard than what is in the ][ I just picked up though, which is why I wasn't sure if it was a LATE ][ or ][+ board in it, I knew a matching board should have had the green slots, so I was under NO illusion it was original.

Here's a quick and dirty teaser of what my ][ setup will look like with its 1977 B&W CCTV monitor ;-)
][System.jpg
 
RWallmow said:
Yeah, I knew the board was 1980 from its date code, which is why I assumed it wasn't original to that low SN case, also the power supply is an Astec Dual 110/220 voltage, which even my fairly high SN (490,xxx), and what I think is a 1983 date code ][+ doesn't have, so I am assuming that's even newer?
Click to expand...

I think your PS is OK for that case, mine is s/n 37635 and it's dual voltage too (and I have no reasons to think that previous owner replaced it), yours is 33568 which looks like a perfect match. I'm afraid the original MB was scrapped years ago though...
Still I wonder where did the missing 1100+ power supplies go... spare parts? ;)
 
Dual voltage power supplies were common on export models, and may have ended up in some domestic production as well. The high serial number does show that it's not original to the chassis. Since you have the 16k select blocks, that's likely a mid-1980 Rev. 4 board, just before they started switching to Rev. 7 in autumn of 1980.

If it's rev. 4, it should have rev. 4 on the motherboard next to slot 3 or 4, towards the front. The definitive revision/part number is located under the CPU (6502).

It appears to have a complete set of Applesoft ROMs on it, like a ][ plus, and also had a 16k language card in slot 0 at some point, as that RAM chip is missing (upper left RAM socket).
 
I know the son of the original owner of this, and I know this has been in storage a long time, I am assuming the mismatched parts were likely swapped due to failure in the early 80's. Somewhat disappointing that its not all stock, but still a cool addition to my collection.
 
HoJoPo said:
If it's rev. 4, it should have rev. 4 on the motherboard next to slot 3 or 4, towards the front. The definitive revision/part number is located under the CPU (6502).
Click to expand...
I'll have to pull the CPU and check for the revision.

HoJoPo said:
Dual voltage power supplies were common on export models, and may have ended up in some domestic production as well.
Click to expand...
I assume its PSU was likely replaced around the time the motherboard was.

HoJoPo said:
It appears to have a complete set of Applesoft ROMs on it, like a ][ plus, and also had a 16k language card in slot 0 at some point, as that RAM chip is missing (upper left RAM socket).
Click to expand...
Yeah, I noticed that, I did not get a language card with it, just a ROM card (missing the D8 ROM), once I clean this up and get around to testing I will borrow the language card from my ][+ for testing.
 
Very old

Very old

The presence of the memory jumpers on the left edge (are they socketed or soldered in?) indicates this motherboard is one of the early numbered version boards (later versions had letter versions). Does the case lid have metal braid along the front edge? If yes it's a newer RFI shielded version they stared selling some in 1980. If never known Apple to sell a unit with the older motherboard and newer case.

The Apple ][ used some rather cheap IC sockets that contacted the chip pins along the narrow edge. I would remove every IC and clean the pins with a pencil eraser. A fiberglass cleaning brush (I think MCM electronics sells them) would be even better.

A few years ago I had a lot of spare time on my hands and took my old ][+ and UN-soldered every socket and replaced it with a military grade machined pin gold plated socket. The result? The world most reliable Apple ][.

I'll dig it out later and post pics.
 
Many of those who had Apple ][ (not +) moved our Applesoft ROMs from the card to the motherboard and Integer ROMs to the card. Many of the very early ][+'s didn't have the plus on the case. Back in the day I asked the local dealer what the plus was when I first saw it. The diff? Applesoft ROMs instead of integer and an autostart monitor ROM. It's was easy to make a ][ into a ][+.
 
This would have originally come w a rev 3 motherboard, from last few weeks of 1978 or first few weeks of 1979. The motherboard in it now is almost certainly rev 4. It was replaced a year, year and a half later.

Thats a relatively quick replacement, my guess is the rev 3 chips kept getting loose at inopportune times... My old rev 3 had that recurrin problem, and it was irritating!rd
 
I will try to pull the CPU in the next night or two to get the definitive board revision, got too caught up in Breaking Bad on netflix this weekend to do anything more than take it home, and snap a few photos, lol.
 
RWallmow said:
View attachment 17954
Under CPU
Click to expand...

I've never looked under the CPU but given your serial is only 3000 units away from mine I'm curious to see what's there...
BTW you may wish to check the bottom of the power supply, some have production date stamped there.
According to a thread on Applefritter, I still think there's a chance that your PS is the original one.
 
Gabriele72 said:
I've never looked under the CPU but given your serial is only 3000 units away from mine I'm curious to see what's there...
BTW you may wish to check the bottom of the power supply, some have production date stamped there.
According to a thread on Applefritter, I still think there's a chance that your PS is the original one.
Click to expand...

According to akochera (quoted below) a Rev3 would have been the norm for this case, but I've never heard of a Rev3 from 1980, so I am a bit perplexed here, my serial number sure wouldn't support a 1980 date. Did apple renumber refurbished boards? like could this Rev3 board have been repaired in 1980, and then installed in my ][ as warranty/service replacement? Or is this actually a low SN 1980 built ][? This is all bringing up more questions than answers, lol.

akochera said:
This would have originally come w a rev 3 motherboard, from last few weeks of 1978 or first few weeks of 1979. The motherboard in it now is almost certainly rev 4. It was replaced a year, year and a half later.
Click to expand...
This IS a rev3 by its part number, and the inclusion of 16k select blocks, Rev4's do NOT have the select blocks. But it is a REALLY late date to be a Rev3, which is very odd.

Color me more confused that when I started :confused6:
 
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