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How to determine the original hyphenated IBM "type" number for a system?

A

Andrew T.

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I've noticed that IBM computer models in the 1980s had hyphenated "type" numbers that appeared in sales and technical contexts (such as the IBM Product Reference). For example, an IBM AT could be either type 5170-068, 5170-099, 5170-239, 5170-319, or 5170-339, depending on the memory, drive, and motherboard configuration.

IBM's PS/2 models and many of their subsequent desktop systems (even into the Lenovo era) contained a small label on the front panel containing the full, hyphenated type number and serial number. But the PC, XT, and AT never did, as far as I know.

Is it possible to discern the original "type" of an IBM PC, XT, or AT unit if it has been changed from its original configuration?
 
not sure about AT, but I don't remember noticing any subcodes on the PC and XT, just the -001 and -002 on the monitors for their voltage rating.
I can't think of a way to check, but usually as long as it has originally available options I'm ok with it.
 
offensive_Jerk said:
Isn't that info displayed on the barcode on the rear?
Click to expand...

Usually, the barcode label contained only the serial number and the core four-digit model number (i.e., 5160)...and sometimes, not even that. There were some exceptions to this at the tail end of the XT/AT era: Here's a Type 5160-268 where "268" appears on the label, for example. But, it seems IBM wasn't really forthright about these numbers until the PS/2 era...
 
I had pondered this question before also. I took some pics of my 5170s.
On my three AT systems, only the newer 8mhz models show anything on the barcode which is "339-72". I assume this is the 339 model of the AT 5170. The original 6mhz model does not show any submodel on the barcode, although it is in poor condition.

Serial 5170-7137279 MFG: 8/22/1986
Serial 5170-7090578 MFG: 6/27/1986
Serial Illegible MFG 2/1985



The IBM Personal Computer family has been enhanced with the
addition of two new models of the IBM Personal Computer AT. The new
models maintain compatibility with most existing hardware and
software products for the IBM Personal Computer AT family.
The new Model 339, with the following enhancements,
corresponds to the current AT (TM) Model 239:
o Increased processor speed from 6 MHz to 8 MHz
o A new keyboard with separate numeric and cursor keys, indicator
lights, and 12 function keys.
The new Model 319 is identical to Model 339, with the
exception of the keyboard, which is the current AT keyboard.
In addition, IBM announces two new memory expansion cards and
a memory module kit for all models of the AT family.
Click to expand...
32991420598_c76ee1f885_k.jpg32991420948_f6caaef820_k.jpg32991420988_a348b3dbc3_z.jpg
 
Some of my systems have a small label at the bottom front edge (on the main chassis, not the cover) with the 4-digit type code and the serial number. I haven't checked 100% but I think the systems having the small front labels are the ones that have the type code added to the serial number sticker on the back. I found these small labels on a few of my ATs and at least one XT (I didn't check all my PCs and XTs so there might have been more).

Based on this statistically insignificant sample, I'm guessing that if the backs are hard to get at it might save time to first look for systems with the small front label. If there's a small front label (or some glue residue showing where one used to be) it's worth the effort to get a look at the back, because chances are good you'll find a model code there.
 
offensive_Jerk said:
I had pondered this question before also. I took some pics of my 5170s.
On my three AT systems, only the newer 8mhz models show anything on the barcode which is "339-72". I assume this is the 339 model of the AT 5170. The original 6mhz model does not show any submodel on the barcode, although it is in poor condition.

Serial 5170-7137279 MFG: 8/22/1986
Serial 5170-7090578 MFG: 6/27/1986
Serial Illegible MFG 2/1985




View attachment 50804View attachment 50805View attachment 50806
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing! I scoured the web and eBay for XT and AT rear-panel pictures, and the later-style barcode labels (with the type number opposite the serial) may be more common than I thought. Just about all the later US-built XT and AT models from 1986-87 have them.

For earlier models, though, there doesn't appear to be any surefire way of determining the original type. I was hoping that there was some "tell-tale" somewhere I had overlooked (another label, or stamped code, or even the numbering block for the serial?), but no luck.

BTW if you're curious about your 6MHz AT's serial number, you could try deciphering it from the barcode digit-by-digit. The barcode consists of the 7-digit serial number, four-digit model number, and a check digit, bookended by asterisks.

kgober said:
Some of my systems have a small label at the bottom front edge (on the main chassis, not the cover) with the 4-digit type code and the serial number. I haven't checked 100% but I think the systems having the small front labels are the ones that have the type code added to the serial number sticker on the back. I found these small labels on a few of my ATs and at least one XT (I didn't check all my PCs and XTs so there might have been more).

Based on this statistically insignificant sample, I'm guessing that if the backs are hard to get at it might save time to first look for systems with the small front label. If there's a small front label (or some glue residue showing where one used to be) it's worth the effort to get a look at the back, because chances are good you'll find a model code there.
Click to expand...

Now, this is interesting! I've never seen a front-facing serial/type label on an XT or AT before. Do you have a photo?
 
kgober said:
I'm guessing that if the backs are hard to get at it might save time to first look for systems with the small front label. If there's a small front label (or some glue residue showing where one used to be) it's worth the effort to get a look at the back, because chances are good you'll find a model code there.
Click to expand...
I’ve never seen the front sticker either. Maybe they did it because the AT has the plastic trim piece covering the unsightly rear panel.
 
offensive_Jerk said:
Were the AT serial numbers given sequentially?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure. So far, I've seen AT serial numbers in the 0, 5, and 7 series. I doubt they sold 7 million of them, so I suspect there were multiple, parallel numbering series for different assembly sites, specifications, or chassis suppliers...to say nothing of UK-built systems, which used their own serial number format.

I'm surprised no-one has started a PC/XT/AT serial number registry to keep tabs on production numbers and variations. (Maybe I'll have to start one?)
 
Andrew T. said:
BTW if you're curious about your 6MHz AT's serial number, you could try deciphering it from the barcode digit-by-digit. The barcode consists of the 7-digit serial number, four-digit model number, and a check digit, bookended by asterisks.
Click to expand...

Interesting.

I used a generic iPhone barcode reader app just because I'm lazy. It couldn't read the code on the 6mhz, but on my other one it spit out "713727951706" Seems to match the first 7 as the serial, then the 5170 model, then the 6, which you say is the check digit perhaps.
 
Is it even possible to determine the full original spec? I thought all PC/XT/AT machines were shipped from the factory as little more than bare-bones systems with just the disk controller and 1 floppy drive fitted and the dealer would then add options as required for the order?

eg. I don't think they ever shipped with a graphics card fitted so you will never know whether an MDA/CGA is original spec or was swapped over later.

I didn't think an IBM was supplied ready to run from the factory until the PS/2?
 
I shoddily tried to fix the bar code in Paint.net. I started rapidly losing interest halfway through, lol.
Anyway, after fixing the bar code and rescanning it with the iphone app, I get this serial "51421925170."

51706mhzserial.jpg
 
cwathen said:
Is it even possible to determine the full original spec? I thought all PC/XT/AT machines were shipped from the factory as little more than bare-bones systems with just the disk controller and 1 floppy drive fitted and the dealer would then add options as required for the order?

eg. I don't think they ever shipped with a graphics card fitted so you will never know whether an MDA/CGA is original spec or was swapped over later.

I didn't think an IBM was supplied ready to run from the factory until the PS/2?
Click to expand...
There useda be lots of info on IBM's server reference the 5150 - 5160 - 5162 - 5170 and different model numbers, re-works etc but that was many years ago, all gone now the last time i looked, Depending what was ordered IBM shipped complete ready to run units from the factory or bare bones units, Some dealers would order bare bones units and source specific parts from elsewhere because it was cheaper, IBM factories in other countries were allowed to outsource but it was all pretty strict as i remember.
 
IMG_0644_25%.jpg
Here's a picture of the front label I found on one of my XTs. This XT is sitting on top of another PC or XT, which is why you see drives below the sticker. The front stickers on the 5160 and 5170 are in the middle, unlike say a PS/2 Model 70 where it's on the right side of the lower edge.
 
I just checked mine, Neither my 5150 or 5160's have labels on the front but my 5162 and 5170 does.
 
Andrew T. said:
I'm surprised no-one has started a PC/XT/AT serial number registry to keep tabs on production numbers and variations.
Click to expand...
In earlier threads, similar registries/databases have has been proposed a few times. From memory, some things that will degrade the value of the information include:

1. Different factories doing different things (e.g. factory A have moved to plastic-bracket speakers, but factory B still has six months' worth of metal-bracket speakers).

2. Variations created by dealers.

3. Originality. How many forum members today have a machine that their family/business bought, i.e. can vouch that nothing has been swapped in/out, etc. since purchase.

4. Inadequate sample size. I am pretty sure that a few years back, someone did try to start a register, but did not get many members responding. Even had many members responded, would it have been a statistically significant sample.
 
modem7 said:
4. Inadequate sample size. I am pretty sure that a few years back, someone did try to start a register, but did not get many members responding. Even had many members responded, would it have been a statistically significant sample.
Click to expand...

I suggest to renew this idea and implement IBM PC/XT/AT register to this forum. I am very interesting in results.

Regarding to serial numbers, i can confirm that early PC/XT models was numbered gradually, but later models and especially European AT models was numbered very specifically.
 
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