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I need some opinions...

Druid6900

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
3,809
Location
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Hi,

I got tired of seeing all the Commodore 64s, 64Cs, 128s, Vic-20s and Amigas, with their monitors sitting around the warehouse, so I had them trucked over to my house and I am making fixing them a pet (no pun intended) project.

Most of all the C64 PSUs tested bad on a load test-jig I set up, so, I had some new hybrid transformer/switching supplies manufactured and they are testing under monitoring. I had them made with 5VDC@3A and 14VAC@2A which is powerful enough to drive a C128. I am having a slip-on adapter with the C128 square 5-pin DIN connector on the end (yes, I found a bunch of them) to test them on the C128s. The 14VAC is fused and the supply can be opened to replace a blown fuse.

I had some very nice serial cables made up, but, now I am turning my attention to the AV cables that I'll have manufactured.

That's what I need the opinions on. Which cables should I have made, what length should they be, would the original ones be best (5-pin DIN to dual RCA, 8-pin DIN to triple RCA), s-video, scart, what?

I would appreciate your comments as they will be the basis for my decision. What I'm having a little trouble finding is some of the wiring diagrams for the cables (which connector pins to which colour RCA plugs, etc) so my manufacturer can fabricate them, so, if you have or know where I can find them I'd appreciate that information as well.

Thanks.
 
Hi,


Most of all the C64 PSUs tested bad on a load test-jig I set up, so, I had some new hybrid transformer/switching supplies manufactured and they are testing under monitoring. I had them made with 5VDC@3A and 14VAC@2A which is powerful enough to drive a C128. I am having a slip-on adapter with the C128 square 5-pin DIN connector on the end (yes, I found a bunch of them) to test them on the C128s. The 14VAC is fused and the supply can be opened to replace a blown fuse.

Thanks.

I wonder why 14V AC. The original C64/C128 PSUs have 9VAC output, usually it's around 10-11V max. All the C64 "breadbin" boards have an additional LM7805 linear voltage regulator, feed by the 9VAC rectified and smoothed. That regulator feeds the Vdd (+5V) rail to the VIC-II and SID chips and it already runs seriously hot at 9VAC rectified input. IMHO giving 14VAC input to the old breadbins is looking for this regulator to fail.
Newer C64-C boards and the C128 don't have this regulator anymore, but why feeding a 50% higher voltage anyway?

Frank IZ8DWF
 
I wonder why 14V AC. The original C64/C128 PSUs have 9VAC output, usually it's around 10-11V max. All the C64 "breadbin" boards have an additional LM7805 linear voltage regulator, feed by the 9VAC rectified and smoothed. That regulator feeds the Vdd (+5V) rail to the VIC-II and SID chips and it already runs seriously hot at 9VAC rectified input. IMHO giving 14VAC input to the old breadbins is looking for this regulator to fail.
Newer C64-C boards and the C128 don't have this regulator anymore, but why feeding a 50% higher voltage anyway?

Frank IZ8DWF

You are, of course, correct and it is, indeed, 9VAC.
The 14VAC was for the TRS-80 Model I power supplies we had manufactured.
Getting old, ya know.....
 
You are, of course, correct and it is, indeed, 9VAC.
The 14VAC was for the TRS-80 Model I power supplies we had manufactured.
Getting old, ya know.....

Thanks :) I was feeling so bad for those C64 @ 14V :)
Frank
 
So the only way I can answer this is that when I needed the cables, i made 8 pin DIN to S-Video/Composite. In my opinion, the only way to go with stock video on a C64 would be direct to a Commodore CRT or via S-Video, and most new people getting into this (and having a need for a cable), will probably not be going the route of the Commodore CRT so S-Video/Composite is probably the most common needed cable.

While I have a SCART box, I don't use it with the C64. It doesn't really support s-video so kinda leaves you with composite which isn't the best option. Of course, I'm not living in a SCART country, so I could be wrong on it's requirement in this particular case.
 
Regarding the video cable: so far I only used a "5-pins DIN plug to two cinch plugs" cable for the C64. It can be used for the VIC-20 as well. For the C128 I have one where the cable from the 5-pins DIN plug first go to a 9-pins D-connector plus case. A little switch has been fitted in the case. It switches between the video signal coming from the DIN plug and the video signal from the D-connector. I have an original IBM CGA monitor standing around that I can use if I need to see the RGB of the D-connector.
Why those cinch plugs? All my displays have them, even my one year old 40 inch smart TV.
 
So the only way I can answer this is that when I needed the cables, i made 8 pin DIN to S-Video/Composite. In my opinion, the only way to go with stock video on a C64 would be direct to a Commodore CRT or via S-Video, and most new people getting into this (and having a need for a cable), will probably not be going the route of the Commodore CRT so S-Video/Composite is probably the most common needed cable.

While I have a SCART box, I don't use it with the C64. It doesn't really support s-video so kinda leaves you with composite which isn't the best option. Of course, I'm not living in a SCART country, so I could be wrong on it's requirement in this particular case.

I agree with you on this and, while we do have a number of 1702, 1802, 1084 (not the S) and 2002 monitors, not nearly enough for all the 64, 128 and Amiga units we have. Most people don't want to pay the shipping costs for a CRT because, using the "box in a box" method we use, the size (and cost) gets up there quickly.
I know there are some mods to the SCART that are supposed correct some of its deficiencies, and, although a little sloppy, it may be worth considering.
 
Regarding the video cable: so far I only used a "5-pins DIN plug to two cinch plugs" cable for the C64. It can be used for the VIC-20 as well. For the C128 I have one where the cable from the 5-pins DIN plug first go to a 9-pins D-connector plus case. A little switch has been fitted in the case. It switches between the video signal coming from the DIN plug and the video signal from the D-connector. I have an original IBM CGA monitor standing around that I can use if I need to see the RGB of the D-connector.
Why those cinch plugs? All my displays have them, even my one year old 40 inch smart TV.

I agree that the basic system seems to work and it's simple. Your modified cable sounds interesting, but, I didn't want us to get into having the person doing mods to the computer. That's how we designed the power supply, simple. 2/3rd the size of the original, a quarter of the weight, easy to change the fuse and NO EPOXY!!!
I didn't want an expensive "this supply does everything Commodore every made" supply, just a nice simple safe PSU that you can use with the 64 series and the 128 series (perhaps the A500 and A600, but that remains to be seen).
Can the 5-pin 2/3 RCA cable be used on both the 5-pin sockets and the 8-pin sockets?
I want to get this right on the first run.
The only 5-pin to RCA cable I have is in a complete, boxed Atari XEGS and I don't want to be unpacking in any more than I have to. 30 year old cardboard ain't what it used to be....
 
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I know there are some mods to the SCART that are supposed correct some of its deficiencies, and, although a little sloppy, it may be worth considering.

Meh. I have the scart box specifically for using modern lcd with my Atari ST. For composite or svideo systems, I have a Retrotink.

Can the 5-pin 2/3 RCA cable be used on both the 5-pin sockets and the 8-pin sockets?
I want to get this right on the first run..

The first 5 pins on the 8 pin connector are the same, and a five pin connector works on an 8 pin computer. Unfortunately the 5 pin cable doesn't support svideo.
 
If you had to pick just one, I think 5 and five would be most widely useful, covering C64 (both old and new), Atari 8-bit (including XE/XL) and TI-99/4A, with each system using a slightly different set of plugs.

Note that on old C64's with the DIN-5 connector, while there is not a dedicated Chroma pin, you can still benefit from a 3-plug cable -- the dedicated Luma pin still provides an improved picture, even if you use the Composite output for the Chroma monitor input (it still works, with no obvious loss (that I ever noticed) of clarity or color rendition -- apparently it is easier to recover a good chroma signal from composite than it is to recover a good luma signal).

On the Atari XE line pin 5 is used for Chroma so there's some benefit to wiring that one up, even though on the C64 it's almost never used (there being very little software that takes advantage of the audio in feature).

For the DIN-8, again there is some benefit to wiring all 8 because Sega Master and Sega Genesis can use the extra pins for analog RGB. Using a DIN-5 with 5 plugs still works for these Sega consoles but using composite only.
 
The only thing i have to add is that depending on your pricing, these are pretty common cables to buy so might not be worth the effort. A quick search on eBay shows 5 pin c64 video cables for as low as $10 and 8 pin for around $20.

Oh, on the 8 pin cable situation, the sega and c64 are different wiring so i don't think that would apply. The only reason you'd wire up an 8 pin cable for the c64 (vs just using 5 pin) is for svideo. As well, pin 5 on the sega and on 8 on the c64 are power pins, so any mismatching of wires by the user could end poorly... these are definitely two completely different cables.
 
Yes, I noticed that too, regarding the Sega. I will have to be quite specific in the listings regarding which systems it would be safe to use them on.
As for price, I'm pretty sure I could sell a quality cable for about half those prices (USD) and not have a ridiculously high shipping cost to make up for a low selling price. I really dislike that tactic.
I'm selling stuff, not only through my site, but on eBay as well (Druid123) but, until they are well tested, none of this stuff is on either.
I was wondering if someone could sketch out this 5-pin/5 RCA beastie (and the traditional colours of the plugs) if they have the time. It'll save me some time and I'd appreciate it.

Thank you...
 
Commodore stuff (an aside)

Commodore stuff (an aside)

Setting aside the matter of the video cable, I wanted to show you people the things I've been doing in the Commodore world.

Here is the C64/64C/C128 power supply that we are having manufactured;

IMG_20190731_123958.jpgIMG_20190605_164417.jpg

Outputting 5VDC@3A and 9VAC@1.5A they run a C128 with no problems at all in our tests. It requires a short adapter cable with a female 7-pin DIN on one end a square 5-pin DIN on the other end.

6.jpg2.jpg

The two samples we have of the adapter are being used to test some D series C128s at the moment.

Here are the serial cables we had made;

002.jpg003.jpg

The samples of the TRS-80 Model I power supplies;

004.jpg005a.jpg

And last, but not least, our power supply for the A500/A600/A1200 series;

004.jpg003.jpg002.jpg005.jpg

Outputting 5VDC@5A, 12VDC@2.5A and -12@0.5A, it should handle, pretty much, any version of the A500, A600 and A1200 produced and any added upgrades. Testing will tell how hard we can push it as they are in transit to us as well.

In addition, we have a bunch of MOS 6526A and MOS 6581 chips on their way to us.

We have other things planned for the 64, the Amiga, the TRS80 Model I, such as cables, and then we will move on to the Atari line such as the XEGS, still in the box, complete down to the warranty cards I pulled off one of the skids the other day.
 
OK, thanks to MikeS, and his pin-outs, I've decided on a 5-pin DIN with 4 RCA plugs for my video cables.
The 6526s and 6581 for arrived and I'm just going to extract some bad ones from one of the 64s, put in some sockets and then test them all with the 64/128 diagnostics and test harness.
I can get more of both chips but, it seems that no one here is interested, so, I'll put them on my site and eBay.
Thanks for the suggestions though.
 
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