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WimWalther

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The VCFED Android app is a 47MB download. That would more than fill a 'large' HDD from the late 80s.

Back when the (very capable) Opera browser was young, it fit on a single 1.44MB floppy. There were and still are network-capable Linux distros that will do the same. The examples go on, I'm sure you can think of more than I.

And somehow we need 30X that space just to use a piece of forum software? Embrace the bloat.
 

Plasma

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Seems that software always expands to fill the hardware. Time is money, so software is rarely optimized more than necessary.
 

Unknown_K

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My first browser was a retail copy of Mosaic by Quarterdeck and I think it was on 2 1.44MB floppy disks.
 

VERAULT

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Reemember early version of Adobe acrobat? They were small. Now they are Gigantic? To use PDF files?! why? The same goes for just about anything now. I would rather use a slower pc with a limited and optimized OS. I dont need bloat. I dont need ads of unrealistic families when I log onto my bank site. I just need a logon prompt and text. Explain to me why my phone forces updates which always make it worse and how its impossible to turn off the sounds it makes when I restart it. RANT RANT RANT

This coffee is delicious!
 

mbbrutman

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People complain about code bloat all of the time, and it's the same answer every time .. it's about economics.
  • When computers filled a room and were super expensive, everything was oriented toward making the maximum use of the most expensive resource - the computer. Which is why people sat around hand coding things, optimizing them, and doing a lot of the process on paper before attempting to use the computer.
  • As the computer became cheaper the cost shifted toward the people. It is not worth hand optimizing every byte when CPU, RAM and storage are so incredibly cheap compared to the humans.
  • It's not feasible to build everything from scratch. Modern software development relies on reusing other pieces of software, whether it is the operating system, languages, runtime libraries, graphics libraries, etc. The Android App you are pointing out would not be possible without the software reuse. There just isn't enough time in the universe to recreate everything.
It's fun to do "yesterday vs. today", but it's also pointless if you ignore the basic conditions that caused the shifts. There is a reason why nobody wants to use old tech apart from nostalgia or very specific use cases - it doesn't meet current expectations.
 

commodorejohn

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It's not feasible to build everything from scratch. Modern software development relies on reusing other pieces of software, whether it is the operating system, languages, runtime libraries, graphics libraries, etc. The Android App you are pointing out would not be possible without the software reuse. There just isn't enough time in the universe to recreate everything.
Tell that to these people. Or this guy ;)
 

WimWalther

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Fact is that system resources are limited, and we each pay for our own. That software developers feel at their leisure to gobble up our precious storage, bandwidth & CPU cycles says a great deal about their attitudes - and none of it flattering.

So what we get is increasing bloat, poor efficiency and a clear lack of innovation. Anyone else see an analogy to the US auto industry of the 1970s?
 

mbbrutman

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Fact is that system resources are limited, and we each pay for our own. That software developers feel at their leisure to gobble up our precious storage, bandwidth & CPU cycles says a great deal about their attitudes - and none of it flattering.

So what we get is increasing bloat, poor efficiency and a clear lack of innovation. Anyone else see an analogy to the US auto industry of the 1970s?

Do you write code for hobby purposes or for a living?

Seriously - software developers are not in a gilded castle somewhere deciding where to train their "next laser beam of resource consumption" while they drink champagne and make fun of the masses. It's economics. If the standard cell phone today has 2GB of RAM and 128GB of storage, that is what they will target. It makes no economic sense to target a device or a computer that has long since disappeared from mainstream usage.
 

Unknown_K

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I remember when games came out that needed better hardware then what was commonly available. These days outside of AAA titles quite a few games will run on much older hardware to get the broadest audience and most $$$.
 

Plasma

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Fact is that system resources are limited, and we each pay for our own. That software developers feel at their leisure to gobble up our precious storage, bandwidth & CPU cycles says a great deal about their attitudes - and none of it flattering.

So what we get is increasing bloat, poor efficiency and a clear lack of innovation. Anyone else see an analogy to the US auto industry of the 1970s?

You have to remember most software developers are not self employed. Their attitude is usually just "I've been assigned this task, due by this deadline, with these constraints."

So they do what is necessary to get the job done, using existing libraries and frameworks.
 

VERAULT

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There are many truths to both sides of this. Thats obvious. I think the concensus is those of us who can remember when most mainstream software was optimised and not bloated and just worked. Updates? Few and far between. Most people didnt know to dial the publishers BBS to download them or mail in for a diskette. Therefore what you bought was what it was.. Therefore it HAD to work. Now software is bloated, and terrible, and forces updates which somehow make it even worse. There is no reason for programs to be gigantic and use so many resources but yet they are. ITs clear they are not being optimised.

Wh? I think thats been covered. Its a job, just push it out. Like so many other jobs not related to software your job dictates your schedule. Your not going to see a personal point of pride on mainstream software because of this; only the little guy will have the time and desire to do so.

Next is trends. This bad software, bloated disaster has been going on for 20+ years. Its how it is now, noone is going to go back to better methods. Why do you think you dont see software with a lifetime license being sold anymore. As Chris rock said "..there is no money in the cure, there is money in the treatment... Tussin!" They dont want to sell a product, they just want to keep finding ways of getting more money.

I remember computing on a 386 16mhz. I remember how much faster a 486 SX 25 felt. Those days speed mattered. I dont feel that and have not felt that in years. Todays machines are faster than they need to be for daily tasks. Yet they keep getting faster. Why? To run Newer bloated software that runs worse than the previous generation. I dont need all the graphical nonsense. A core 2 processor (Nay a Pentium D) would do just about all I need today if the software didnt have planned obsolesnce and stop working if you dont get the newer one. Thats the problem, thats where we are.

Why cant my second gen Ipad be used for much anymore? Because its old and slow? Not even close. Its used for web browsing and video streaming. It was designed to be phased out

Why does task manager show 6.6Gb used when all I am doing is browsing the internet and editing a few photos on my home PC? Because the software is optimised? I dont think so.
 
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Chuck(G)

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Well, for one thing, you have to look at the memory footprint in terms of resident (i.e. physical) vs. non-resident code. Since all current PCs implement virtual memory, stuff that never gets called, never hits physical memory and so never impacts performance.

Linux kernels are an example of this--they have drivers for everything from soup to nuts compiled into the kernel code. If a device isn't present, the driver for that device never makes it to physical memory.
 

krebizfan

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Some software packages include a startup utility that loads all possible code branches into memory so the application won't have a delay later. Slows the overall performance of the system as lots code gets read off disk and then only lasts in memory until it is shoved back to disk to free up RAM for a program that will be used.

I do find it a bit puzzling that the VCFED app is almost as large as a full featured offline word processor on Android. Some programs I can see where the storage goes. Restaurants will have large images of all the food items downloaded as part of the app. What does the VCFED app offer for its download?
 

Caluser2000

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Just relaxing on the decking with shot gun resting across my lap drinking a cup of PG Tips and smiling as another young'n drops off another no longer needed "obsolete" system on the bench under the car port.


Ahhh life is great!!........
 

Chuck(G)

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I take it that NZ doesn't have an aggressive recycling program for electronics. Around here locally, the program is used to train the ability-impaired and receives government funding. The result is that very little old stuff survives.
 
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