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IBM 5170 Seagate ST-4096 not responding

KLund1

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Im now working on a 5170 with a Seagate ST-4096 Hard drive.
I looked in here and found a thread that this drive is a Type 12. I used this to run the Setup for the system after I put in a new battery.

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?46816-Seagate-ST-4096-on-IBM-AT-5170-1780-error

I am trying to get this drive to be recognized. It is unknown if this drive is good or not. But I have seen it sitting their side, and upside down as the guy was talking to me about it. So possible damage from bad handling over the years. But it clean. no dust, or visible damage.
On power up of the AT I get 1780 error and a long wait before Resume F1 shows. The controller card is a standard IBM 2nd gen HD card with correct jumper setting.
From FDisk I get drive not ready.
I loaded SSTOR diagnostics and from the seek test I get error 1714. The same for LLF
The cables are standard IBM blue ribbon type. Looking from top down the power side of the cable is on the left for both cables.

I also have a miniscribe 6085. but I can't find it's AT Drive type number.
Suggestions?
Thanks
 

krebizfan

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Bitsavers has the MiniScribe manual and the 6085 is listed as drive type 4, 45.

No idea on the ST4096 issue. Not something I encountered when I had one.
 

modem7

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Im now working on a 5170 with a Seagate ST-4096 Hard drive. ...
1780 is a very high-level error.
Have you been through the checklist shown in the 1780 entry at [here] ?

( NOTE: If the cause was only a LLF mismatch, the error would have been 1790, not 1780. )

I also have a miniscribe 6085. but I can't find it's AT Drive type number.
MFM / SPT = 17 / Cylinders = 1024 / Heads = 8 / WPC = 512

From the IBM 5170 specific information at [here], there is no direct match.

A close match that will work, is type 4. The use of type 4 will result in only 940 of the drive's 1024 cylinders being used (91% of capacity).

Type 19 (available in the second and third BIOS revisions) will also work, resulting in only 7 of the drive's 8 heads being used (87% of capacity).
 

fatwizard

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It would be worth a shot to exercise all of the connectors on the drive. It's a tedious operation on some drives, but the ST-4096 is easy because all of the connectors are accessible from the bottom of the drive. No disassembly required. Oxidization can creep in on drives when they sit in storage a long time, or really just because they are old.
 

KLund1

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exercise all of the connectors on the drive.
Please explain what this means.


I have looked at that page of AT errors from minuszero (greeat site!) most of those are about the cable. The cable I am using is connected correctly to the card and drive (see 1st post). But HD terminators I am unsure about. The termination jumpers on the HD have an 8 pin jumper in all holes. so is this closed? This is how I have been testing. The drive is connected at the end of the 2 drive cable. The HD is also jumpered as drive 1 (there is no zero drive setting, just 1 or 2). There are two smaller cables (J4?) I have tried with both and get the same result.
 

Stone

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The drive is connected at the end of the 2 drive cable.
Do you mean the connector after the twist?

If so, this is wrong. Use the middle connector for the drive.

Alternatively, you can leave the cable as is and move the drive jumper to position 2.
 

fatwizard

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By exercise I mean just work them off, then back on a couple of times. In other words, unplug and replug the connectors.
 

KLund1

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Oh, OK. I cleaned them when I first got it with ISO, as always.

But GOOD News!! I got the seagate to be recognized. !!! I was very confused about where to connect the cables. Stone post above did the trick!!! It is LLF now done. Fdisk, Format /s, and it boots from c:!!!
Thanks!!
all good!!!
 

KLund1

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Livermore, CA
Next I have a IBM WD12 I want to test. This drive worked with a XT I have a couple moths ago. It booted to c: fine.
I think it is a Type 1 drive for the AT Y/N?? It has the terminator installed on the bottom.
connect it up like the seagate (middle connector on the 32 pin cable), run the Setup for type 1, reboot and I get 1790
The 20 pin cable is same one that was connected to the seagate. 1790 suggests the 20 pin is wrong. Since the HD worked a couple months ago I should not have to LLF it again.
Any your very helpful suggestions??
Thanks
 

Stone

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Since the HD worked a couple months ago I should not have to LLF it again.
Unless you're using the same controller (or at least the same brand in some cases) you will most likely need to LLF the HD again. Unfortunately most HD LLF routines are not compatible when changing from one controller to another. IOW, controller B is not likely to recognize the LLF from controller A.
 

KLund1

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Understood. That is unfortunate.
Can I use the controller card from the XT in the AT? In the 8-bit only slot?
In this now working AT there was a drive d: that I can now see what is on it. There is a lot of software I would like to copy to my XT. I though by just moving drives from AT to XT I could do this.
So drives need to stay with their controller cards to maintain data integrity?
 

Stone

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Can I use the controller card from the XT in the AT? In the 8-bit only slot?
What controller is it?

It won't hurt to try it... it will either work or it won't.

The slot is irrelevant. All slots are 8-bit if the card is 8-bit. :)


So drives need to stay with their controller cards to maintain data integrity?
For the most part, yes. It's not data integrity so much as it is one controller not speaking the same Low Level language as the other.
 
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