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IBM PC 5150 model A in europe?

nestor

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
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509
Location
Spain
I have been looking for a 5150 in Spain some time and I have some questions regarding what can I expect to find:

- Was the first 16-64 kb IBM 5150 model ever released in Europe?

- All 5150 that I have seen seem to be manufactured in the UK. Are there other 'European' 5150 manufactured in other countries?

What was the most common configuration (RAM memory and graphics card) in Europe?

Thanks!
 
I finally found a 5150 in my country, the owner is giving it to me for free (I have to pay the shipping costs only). On the other side, the computer doesn't power up and it seems to have some problems in the graphics card / monitor because the last time it booted there was no output on the display.

I have a pic of the CPU, judging it... what expansion cards may it have?



Thank you!
 
It seems like it's a model B, so it must have the third BIOS (equalent to the BIOS in the PC/XT). Of expansion cards, I can at least spot an IBM floppy disk drive controller and an IBM MDA card.

You may consider to replace the MDA with a VGA card, as you then can use more recent monitors with it. In that case, remember to set the motherboard switches accordingly.
 
The 5150 wasn't officially sold in the UK until 1983, so that rules out the Model A machines. However, I have seen two on UK eBay over the years, so they are out there..

IBM had a factory in Greenook, Scotland - they have an XT in the museum in Edinburgh :)

Take all the cards out and boot the machine up. If it beeps, you are all good, but with a problematic card. If not, the problem is with the motherboard or PSU. I have a spare IBM MDA card if you need one :D
 
I received the CPU and you were right, it is a model B with:
- 256 kb on board (one row soldered and the other three socketed, but with the same NEC chips)
- two full height 5''1/4 360kb tandon drives
- 130W power supply from some German brand (I can't remember now)
- IBM floppy disk drive controller
- IBM MDA / parallel port card.
- RAM Expansion card (two rows of 6164 and one of 61256)

It is from 1986, or at least I can read that under the cover. It has some issues:
- One tantalum near the power plug is blown. It has lost the upper half.
- There are 4 o 5 tantalums with a black dot in the top. I think they are ready to explode.
- The power supply doesn't turn on. I have tried with a 486 motherboard, with two cdrom units, with no load... and always do the same. The fan makes a tiny movement and nothing more. After turning off the switch, the power supply starts to make a high pitch sound for some seconds. I think the secondary has more capacitors in bad shape...
- The two tandom drives seem to work, but they have some problems reading floppies from my 5''1/4 1.2 MB samsung drive, specially at the end of the disk.

I guess I have to spend some time to revive it...
 
You are correct in that the capacitors with a black dot is broken. They aren't ready to explode as they have already blown, but they blew in the more peacefull manner.

Any blown capacitor will either short or seperate Vcc and Gnd. In the case it's shorting, the PSU will bail and immediately cut the power.
 
It seems that the power supply has a short in the +12v line, the multimeter gives 0 Ohm to GND. Looking inside I can't see tantalum capacitors... do faulty electrolytic capacitors short as well?
 
Well, I found the shorted capacitor. It has the shape of a electrolytic one, but it looks different to me... Is it really a electrolytic one?


(click to enlarge)



I put a electrolytic 1000 uf 63v Jamicom in its place, and the power suppy works... now it is powering two cdrom drives (one of them playing a cd-audio disk).
 
You are correct in that the capacitors with a black dot is broken. They aren't ready to explode as they have already blown, but they blew in the more peacefull manner.
Not necessarily; many tantalums are colour coded like resistors, and the dot indicates the multiplier and the polarity (black= x1, looking at the dot side with leads on the bottom the right side = +).
e.g.: (top to bottom): red, red, black, with black dot = 22uf, 10V.
The multiplier and voltage are not standard colours though.
 
After replacing the blowed tantalum (it was shorted) and the two other with black dots, I checked the rest and they seem to be OK. Also tested tantalums in the expansion cards, none is shorted.

So I know power supply and floppy drives work (tested with a Pentium Motherboard), motherboard and cards don't have bad tantalums. Assembled all together but the system is not powering up. Another short? Where??

I have just checked power pin header on motherboard, measuring resistance between GND and power lines. There is low resistance (20 - 30 Ohm or so) in +5 and +12v rails with cards and drives fitted.

It seems that the system had a disaster in the +12v line, both the blowed tantalum in the motherboard and the electrolytic capacitor in the power supply belong to this line. Maybe some ICs on motherboard are connected to the +12v line and were also damaged? What should I check now?
 
After replacing the blowed tantalum (it was shorted) and the two other with black dots, I checked the rest and they seem to be OK. Also tested tantalums in the expansion cards, none is shorted.

So I know power supply and floppy drives work (tested with a Pentium Motherboard), motherboard and cards don't have bad tantalums. Assembled all together but the system is not powering up. Another short? Where??

I have just checked power pin header on motherboard, measuring resistance between GND and power lines. There is low resistance (20 - 30 Ohm or so) in +5 and +12v rails with cards and drives fitted.

It seems that the system had a disaster in the +12v line, both the blowed tantalum in the motherboard and the electrolytic capacitor in the power supply belong to this line. Maybe some ICs on motherboard are connected to the +12v line and were also damaged? What should I check now?

Since you got the B model, nothing but the filtering-capacitros (and expansion cards) are connected to -12V,-5V and +12V lines. In the A model, the 4116 DRAM chips uses them.

Note that capacitors that look just fine can also be broken, thus still shorting powerlines together. It may take some time to find the troublesome ones, but such low resistances indicates that there are still some present.
 
Well, I removed the ISA cards and the floppy drives and only left the motherboard attached to the power supply. Now when I power on, the fan stars to spin and the speaker emits a 'pop' sound, but nothing more. I configured the DIP switches to set 256 kb onboard ram and no graphics card.

I think I should hear at least a beep if all is correct or a sequence of beeps if anything is wrong, am I right? What do you recommend to debug the problem? The 8088 starts to get a bit warm after a minute or so.

Thank you!
 
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I tried more things, but with no positive results:
- Replaced all tantalum capacitors with new ones.
- Removed RAM ICs from banks 1, 2 and 3.
- Piggyback each RAM IC from bank 0 with another one, one by one.

The only 'signs' of life are two pops played by the PC Speaker, spaced about half second, when the power switch is turned on. Another pop is played when turned off.

I'm running out of ideas. Any advice is welcome.
Thanks again!
 
I tried more things, but with no positive results:
- Replaced all tantalum capacitors with new ones.
- Removed RAM ICs from banks 1, 2 and 3.
- Piggyback each RAM IC from bank 0 with another one, one by one.

The only 'signs' of life are two pops played by the PC Speaker, spaced about half second, when the power switch is turned on. Another pop is played when turned off.

I'm running out of ideas. Any advice is welcome.
Thanks again!

1. Test the potential difference between 5V and GND over the CPU.
-if it doesn't equal 5V; One of the other components may be shorting, there is a physically shorted trace somewhere, or either of the power-lines may be broken somewhere before the CPU. Try to find out where in that case, by testing potential difference between GND where the PSU plugs in and any other powerline on the board.
Else, if the potential over the CPU power-lines is equal to 5V;
2. Get an oscillioscope
3. Probe the low address and/or data-lines of the CPU in terms of Ground.
-If no or minimal activity, check the clock chip (8284) output.
--If it clocks, you may have a dead CPU, or some other component (problably one of the bigger chips) may be dead.
Else, if there are some activity; dump the BIOS ROM chips (note that they are not the same pinout as regular 27xx EPROMS). If they are OK, check other chips.

The noise in the speaker is certanly not a good sign, but it does at least show that there is a potentional difference somewhere on the board (indicating power). However, it shouldn't be over the speaker when the computer starts unless something is wrong with:
1. The speaker logic (U63, U95, C9, R10 or RN3)
2. The 8255 I/O port (U36)
3. The 8253 Timer (U34)
4. The CPU or system support logic (buffers, latches, decoders, etc...)

It's likely not 1, as the speaker has potential difference over it when you turn the machine off. However, all of the remaining posibilities should be possible. Try to probe the outputs from U36, U34 or eventually U63 and U95 if neither U36 or U34 outputs noise. The chip that outputs noise is at least failing. It may also be noise on the power-lines, but this should be prevented by the new capacitors you inserted.

Note that if U34/U36 makes noise, it may also mean that the CPU is randomly programming them. This may either indocate I/O errors, broken BIOS, or a broken CPU. Again, an oscllioscope would really come in handy finding out what.
 
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I think I should hear at least a beep if all is correct or a sequence of beeps if anything is wrong, am I right?

Only for the first half of your question, and you may may need to wait for up to a minute to hear the beep.

As for the second half of your question, the answer is no. The beeps are generated by the Power On Self Test (POST) code. A 5150 motherboard failure may be such that the POST code doesn't even get to run. Even if it does get to run, failure of of the first few tests results in no indication of failure.

Code:
From the POST portion of the source listing of the third revision 5150 BIOS (10/27/82, IBM part number 1501476):

8088 PROCESSOR TEST         - on fail, halt CPU
ROS CHECKSUM TEST I         - on fail, halt CPU   (testing checksum of U33 ROM)
8237 DMA INITIALISATION     - on fail, halt CPU   (also sets up chan. 1 of timer for RAM refresh)
BASE 16K RAM TEST           - on fail, halt CPU
8259 INITIALISATION         -
8259 TEST                   - on fail, beep 1 long then 1 short
8253 TIMER CHECKOUT         - on fail, beep 1 long then 1 short
INIT/START VIDEO CONTROLLER - on fail, beep 1 long then 2 short
EXPANSION I/O BOX TEST      - on fail, display 1801 error - may also display "PARITY CHECK 1" if RAM error encountered
ADDITIONAL RAM TEST         - on fail, display a 201 error followed by failing address followed by bit error pattern
KEYBOARD TEST               - on fail, display a 301 error
CASSETTE PORT WRAP TEST     - on fail, display a 131 error
EXPANSION ROM SEARCH        - look for BIOS Extension ROMs in range C8000 to F4000 - call any that are found
ROM BASIC CHECK             - on fail, display address of failed 8K ROM
DISKETTE ATTACHMENT TEST    - on fail, display a 601 error.

ENABLE NON MASKABLE INTERRUPTS
BEEP 1 SHORT TONE
DO BOOTSTRAP

and the speaker emits a 'pop' sound
It is normal for what I describe as a 'click' to be heard from the speaker straight after power on.

I'm running out of ideas. Any advice is welcome.
A long shot. Chips U29 to U32 contain BASIC. The motherboard can start up without them. Try removing them in case one is faulty in a way that affects motherboard start up.

Check that pins aren't bent on the BIOS chip U33.
 
Thank you guys, I have a lot of things to test! But I have some questions:

dump the BIOS ROM chips (note that they are not the same pinout as regular 27xx EPROMS). If they are OK, check other chips.

Where can I find the pinout of this roms? Is it possible to build an adapter and replace the original ROM with a 27Cxx EPROM?

A 5150 motherboard failure may be such that the POST code doesn't even get to run. Even if it does get to run, failure of of the first few tests results in no indication of failure.

Do the 5150 BIOS send messages to the 80h port? Will an ISA POST debug card receive them? I found an schematic and it is very easy to build, only 3 o 4 components are required.

Code:
KEYBOARD TEST               - on fail, display a 301 error
On keyboard fail, only a 301 is displayed? no beeps? But I assume that at least the POST OK beep is produced...


It is normal for what I describe as a 'click' to be heard from the speaker straight after power on.

Good to know!
 
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