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Kaypro 4 Problems

acgs said:
First of all, as long as your boot disk already has a notch in the right side of the disk and free space available, it's writeable. CP/M has a built in command "SAVE" that will write a portion of memory to disk. As long as you have a prompt, you can use SAVE, even if you don't have a boot disk in any drive. Since we are only trying to see if you can write with the drives, it doesn't matter what you write to a file. So try entering this at the "A>" prompt:

SAVE 1 A:WRITE.TST

If that works, you'll see a file named "WRITE.TST" on your disk and know that the A: drive can read and write. Try doing the same with the B: drive.

Secondly, directory listings of what is on your CP/M disks would be helpful so that we can see what utilities you have available. You might have some program that would be better to use than COPY for formatting the disks. (As durgadas311 suggests, it was common for Kaypros to have a FORMAT.COM program on the CP/M disks.) To avoid the risk of missing a file when posting the directory listing, you can always attach a digital camera picture of the directory listing from your Kaypro's screen.

And third: Most CP/M programs will run from either drive, the only question is will it expect to find some files on a specific drive or not. If the programs are part of CP/M itself, they should be able to run from the B drive. But, keep in mind that some "CP/M" software will actually be Kaypro written add-ons. Whatever the case, I recommend at least trying to run COPY from the B drive and seeing if you can make it try to format a floppy in the A drive.



If it comes down to finding out if you have the wrong CP/M; you might need to open the cover to see which ROMs are on your motherboard. If you can't do that yourself, even the guy at the computer repair shop should be able to do that much for you by following the directions we can supply.



It's best to give an email address through a Direct Message to a person who is going to directly assist you instead of posting it on the forum.

I can't speak for anyone in particular, but I think there should be someone within your driving range that can help you with generic problems like cleaning the drives. So, don't give up on that part yet. As you can probably tell, VCF is rather wide ranging in vintage computer interests and not everybody here that might be able to help will have read your Kaypro threads as it might not be their machine of interest. But, if the problem is the floppy drive, that's a non-Kaypro specific part and many enthusiasts should be able to get it to work regardless of whether they know Kaypros or not.

Also, what other computers do you have available? If we know what you have on hand, we might be able to give you more specific instructions to walk you through getting data onto the Kaypro. You might have to buy some more cables, etc., but that will pay off in the long run assuming you really want to get back into using a CP/M machine a lot.
Click to expand...
There seems to be no SAVE on my 2.2g CP/M disk... will check more tomorrow! However... I did a STAT for both drives... Stat A: retrurns r/o for Drive A which is to be expected since the CP/M master is in that drive.... Drive B... with the blank disk in it returns dos error, bad sector (00). So to me since I'm not trying to write that tells me one of two things: either the disk is bad or it's the drive itself. So... hopefully I'll get those 3M blanks on Monday...
 
Note, "SAVE" is a CCP built-in command, so you won't ever find a SAVE.COM on disk (at least not for this purpose). Doing a STAT B: will try to read from drive B: to compute space used - which won't work on a diskette that hasn't been formatted. So far, I'm not hearing anything that strongly points to the floppies being bad (it is possible, though). Drive B: might be bad, but we haven't got a way to safely test whether drive A: has the same problem.
 
Hello Tommar,

as long as you try to copy your disks with the Kaypro and as I read the LW does not work properly there are problems.

I struggled (it was 2017) with this problem for 2 days. A friend had a CPM calculator and he was able to make copies for me. Later I just swapped the drives. A became B and B became A. The jumpers must also be swapped here and the terminating resistor always goes to drive B.
That went well for a while.
Today I only work with Gotek and cpnet. You can back up all your disks (files). For this I use a Raspberry Pi3 or the Pi400.

I use RC2014 with 20Mhz CPU (karlab) for development.
I just have to pay attention to the different screen controls.
Kaypro-ADM3a
RC2014 Z80 with Linux - ANSI VT100
see example
REM ************************************************
REM TERMINAL DRIVER before KAYPRO 484 /ADM
REM CREATED 04/27/85 - PROGRAM INVOICING
REM ************************************************
BELL$ = CHR$(7) :REM TONE
LF$ = CHR$(10) :REM LINE FEED
CR$ = CHR$(13) :REM CARRIAGE RETURN
ESC$ = CHR$(27) :REM ESCAPE
CLR$ = CHR$(12) :REM SCREEN CLEAR|DELETE
HOME$ = CHR$(27) + "[1;1H" :REM CURSOR HOME
CLEOL$ = CHR$(27) + "[K" :REM ERASE CURSOR TO END OF LINE
CLEOS$ = CHR$(27) + "[J" :REM CURSOR TO END OF SCREEN CLEAR|CLEAR
RVS$ = ESC$ + "[7m" :REM INVERSE VIDEO IN
NRM$ = ESC$ + "[0m" :REM INVERSE VIDEO OFF
CURON$ = ESC$ + "[?25h" :REM CURSOR ON
CUROFF$ = ESC$ + "[?25l" :REM CURSOR OFF

Good luck and have fun with Kaypro and CPM 2.2 or CPM 3....
Kurt
 
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Beware that getting at the floppy drives on a Kaypro is no easy task, and not something to attempt without experience in that area. But, swapping A and B on a Kaypro can be as simple as changing only the drive select jumpers. Unless you actually change the cabling (physical arrangement of drives), there is no reason to change termination. The termination resistors belong on the last drive on the cable, and has nothing to do with which drive is jumpered "A" or "B".
 
Thanks Kurt and Durgadas311... I'm hoping that Patrick.B will respond to my direct message. He lives in the same ste as me and perhaps we can get to the bottom of this. I am new on this forum and I am not sure how direct messaging works. I THINK I sent him one but maybe not? How do I know if I have a DM? Kurt, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! I don't understand enough about floppy emulators to tackle that; nor do I know how to get my CP/M software onto an emulator. Which is why I'm hoping someone like Patrick.B will take pity on me!
 
Hello Tommar,

Getting software onto your SD is relatively easy.

The SD is created in FAT32 format.
A TEXT file - FF.CFG is copied to the SD.

In addition, files with the extension DSK are copied to the stick.
The CPM files can be copied into the FILE A.DSK.

With a special program, the cpm files can be copied into the A.DSK file.

Example:
If the computer is inserted with a Gotek LW with the bootable SD in LW A: the computer automatically starts with LW A: and all your files are visible with dir (ENTER).

I'm happy to help you if you might want to do it later.

Good luck and I wish you that the drives from the Kaypro work.

Have a nice day.

Kurt
 
Hi durgadas311

if you physically change the drive from A: to B: then you need to change it according to my info.

That's what I meant.

--------
| | This is drive A:
--------

--------
| | This is drive B:
--------

B: is the last drive.

If I swap A: for B, then I have to change it!
Since A: becomes B: and B: becomes A:

Kurt
 
kurt_kayger said:
Hello Tommar,

Getting software onto your SD is relatively easy.

The SD is created in FAT32 format.
A TEXT file - FF.CFG is copied to the SD.

In addition, files with the extension DSK are copied to the stick.
The CPM files can be copied into the FILE A.DSK.

With a special program, the cpm files can be copied into the A.DSK file.

Example:
If the computer is inserted with a Gotek LW with the bootable SD in LW A: the computer automatically starts with LW A: and all your files are visible with dir (ENTER).

I'm happy to help you if you might want to do it later.

Good luck and I wish you that the drives from the Kaypro work.

Have a nice day.

Kurt
Click to expand...
OK... so how do I get my Kaypro CP/M software from my 5.25" floppies to other media? My "modern" computer is an HP Envy with an SSD drive only. It has a CD drive too... I guess that once I have the emulator installed, I can write to it and print from it correct?
 
Hello Tommar,

I already pointed out a link to the Kaypro 4/84 conversion with Gotek in thread #12.
You have to translate the texts there into English.
Here the link again

The operating system on your computer must be Linux.
It may also work with WIN 10/11. Dunno - not my application for these things.
This is what the program can do.
Download and read.
Study the README. Important! Important!
I work with an HP , 16GB, SSD SamsungPro 500GB and
Ubuntu 22.04 LTS.

Alternatively
I can copy you an SD with many programs that are legally allowed to copy. The copyright must be observed.
Your programs (all packed) might work.
Because you can make copies for private use.
enquire. OK?

Option if alternative desired.
A shipment to you is just a bit expensive. How are the imports regulated with you, delivery time 6 weeks and and ....
Transport costs + SD stick of 8GB or 16GB stick from Germany to USA / Texas, declared as a gift. No idea! Must be inquired with our transport companies.

Danger! I have KAYPRO 4/84 with double sided disk format. Can your Kaypro the format. I can also format IBM Format 360KB.
UNIFORM is a special program with which there are several formats.
I used to work with the SHARP MZ35XX (CPM Computer). Around 1983-85.

Kurt
 
I just saw that SANDISK also works on Windows. As written - no idea.
I'm a Linux user for things like that.

Kurt
 
Tommar, lots of people have used Gotek on Kaypro. If you decide to go that route, you should be able to find help that fits your computer, OS, and experience. But, if the problem is on your mainboard then Gotek will likely not fix anything. Best to get some help determining more about the problem before diving into something like a Gotek. Also note, there is a FaceBook group for Kaypro users, you might be able to get additional help there. You might even find someone closer to you that can look at your system. https://www.facebook.com/groups/580355602847013/
 
durgadas311 said:
Tommar, lots of people have used Gotek on Kaypro. If you decide to go that route, you should be able to find help that fits your computer, OS, and experience. But, if the problem is on your mainboard then Gotek will likely not fix anything. Best to get some help determining more about the problem before diving into something like a Gotek. Also note, there is a FaceBook group for Kaypro users, you might be able to get additional help there. You might even find someone closer to you that can look at your system. https://www.facebook.com/groups/580355602847013/
Click to expand...
Correct... one step at a time; Find out what's wrong first!
 
Tommar said:
There seems to be no SAVE on my 2.2g CP/M disk... will check more tomorrow!
Click to expand...

durgadas311 said:
Note, "SAVE" is a CCP built-in command, so you won't ever find a SAVE.COM on disk (at least not for this purpose).
Click to expand...

Just to clarify this a little more: the SAVE command is like the DIR command. It's always available when you have a command prompt. Since you never find "DIR.COM" on a CP/M 2.2g disk but can still use DIR to get a listing, you also won't find "SAVE.COM" for the same reason.
 
Tommar said:
I am new on this forum and I am not sure how direct messaging works. I THINK I sent him one but maybe not? How do I know if I have a DM?
Click to expand...

There should be a little icon on the menu bar just to the right of your login name. If you hover the mouse over the icon is should pop-up a label that says "Direct Messages." If there is a number beside it, it means you have that many direct messages. So, a 1 would mean 1 direct message, a 2 means 2 messages... And the messages don't have to be all in the same thread. You might receive 1 DM from 1 person and another from a different person and they'll both be counted, meaning a 2 next to the little icon.

To see a list of your Direct Message correspondences, click on that little icon.
 
acgs said:
There should be a little icon on the menu bar just to the right of your login name. If you hover the mouse over the icon is should pop-up a label that says "Direct Messages." If there is a number beside it, it means you have that many direct messages. So, a 1 would mean 1 direct message, a 2 means 2 messages... And the messages don't have to be all in the same thread. You might receive 1 DM from 1 person and another from a different person and they'll both be counted, meaning a 2 next to the little icon.

To see a list of your Direct Message correspondences, click on that little icon.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info ACGS! I needed that bit of help!
 
So tonight, (Monday) I had a bit of a breakthrough at long last! I received the 3M floppies and they still would not format; I inserted the CP/M 2.2g floppy in drive A, typed COPY and selected B for blank from the resulting menu and got that bad sector error again... but this time I tried something different: I typed COPY again... and ths time selected O for Other and a new menu popped up. On this menu, there is an option to format a floppy from the A drive. So I removed the CP/M disk from Drive A and put in a blank unformatted floppy in its place. Lo and behold the blank disk formatted fine (79 tracks). Then I went on to try formatting one of the generic floppies I have using the same method and it also formatted fine. Next test: I tried copying the CP/M 2.2g disk and making a working copy of it. Again, I used the "Other" option and typed "C" for copy and the two Drive lights flashed in sequence until the copy was done. Later, I discovered that this new working copy would not give me the A prompt... but it did supply the version info.... But not much else would copy. I tried to make a copy of my Perfect Writer disks... no good, this time it says bad sector, Drive A (instead of B). Perfect Writer is probably single sided; does that mean I can't use Perfect Writer? Weird. Perfect Writer won't boot on Drive A but it will from Drive B. And as I have stated, no commands work for Drive B from the COPY menu at all. Maybe I should just sell this Kaypro 4 and hold out for a working Kaypro II? One of the major things I wanted to do was to get Wordstar and Perfect Writer to work.... and obviously make backup copies of the software....
 
Tommar said:
So tonight, (Monday) I had a bit of a breakthrough at long last! I received the 3M floppies and they still would not format; I inserted the CP/M 2.2g floppy in drive A, typed COPY and selected B for blank from the resulting menu and got that bad sector error again... but this time I tried something different: I typed COPY again... and ths time selected O for Other and a new menu popped up. On this menu, there is an option to format a floppy from the A drive. So I removed the CP/M disk from Drive A and put in a blank unformatted floppy in its place. Lo and behold the blank disk formatted fine (79 tracks).
Click to expand...

So you can format floppies in drive A at least. Now you can try the SAVE commands I suggested and see what happens. When you put a formatted floppy in drive B and try SAVE, do you get a file or do you get errors trying to create it? What error message do you get?

Then I went on to try formatting one of the generic floppies I have using the same method and it also formatted fine. Next test: I tried copying the CP/M 2.2g disk and making a working copy of it. Again, I used the "Other" option and typed "C" for copy and the two Drive lights flashed in sequence until the copy was done.
Click to expand...

Which way was the copying taking place, from drive A to B, or B to A?

Later, I discovered that this new working copy would not give me the A prompt... but it did supply the version info.... But not much else would copy. I tried to make a copy of my Perfect Writer disks... no good, this time it says bad sector, Drive A (instead of B). Perfect Writer is probably single sided; does that mean I can't use Perfect Writer? Weird.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't think using a single-sided disk in a double-sided drive would be a problem. It isn't on other computers, but I've never worked with a Kaypro 4 specifically, so can't be sure.

Perfect Writer won't boot on Drive A but it will from Drive B.
Click to expand...

Do you mean it wouldn't start up from drive A but will start up from drive B? Booting usually means that you are loading the operating system to get to the prompt, like a "cold boot" or a "warm boot." I've never seen or heard of a Kaypro that can boot the operating system from either drive. I've only come across them booting from drive A.

And as I have stated, no commands work for Drive B from the COPY menu at all. Maybe I should just sell this Kaypro 4 and hold out for a working Kaypro II? One of the major things I wanted to do was to get Wordstar and Perfect Writer to work.... and obviously make backup copies of the software....
Click to expand...

If you have patience, I'm sure all the problems can be resolved, sooner or later. You seem to be a bit of a novice to vintage computing and a lot of these machines take perseverance to bring them back to full functionality. Also many of the people near you that could be interested in helping are probably rather busy preparing for the holiday season. It might be best to hold off any decisions like selling the computer until after the holidays. Let the frustrations pass and take things up again after New Years Day.

Once you get into this hobby, you can learn a lot about the hardware and software. It's similar to being good at fixing cars. Are you interested in getting into it that much?
 
acgs said:
...
I wouldn't think using a single-sided disk in a double-sided drive would be a problem. It isn't on other computers, but I've never worked with a Kaypro 4 specifically, so can't be sure.
...
Click to expand...
I don't recall there being an easy way to handle a single-sided disk on a kaypro that is using double-sided format, but I don't think I ever had any single-sided diskettes.

Looking at the source code for the "universal ROM" (81-478), I see that it probes both sides of a diskette during the select function (i.e. auto-detects the number of sides). However, that only happens when CP/M "logs in" the drive, which is the first access after a Ctrl-C/warm boot. So, some special steps may be required when removing a double-sided diskette and inserting a single-sided. The ROM boot routine should auto-detect also. But, Kaypro only boots from A:.

I'm not sure what older ROMs do.
 
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