• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Mentec M11

Hunta

Experienced Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
459
Location
Samara, Russian Federation
I got here a very interesting and not often seen Mentec M11 board :)
Thanks to my friend!

Photo

So, the log (but not the first one at all) of the download:

Code:
M11 Microcode Rev. V 1.15
Loading microcode - 1 2 3 4 5
 
 
 
Testing in progress please wait
  4088 K Bytes RAM
 
M1000 SIEMENS BOOTSTRAP / DIAGNOSTIC VERSION V 2.1
 
Commands are :
 
BOOT  - Boot from a specific device.
 
HELP  - Re-display this summary of commands.
 
LIST  - List the bootstraps provided.
 
MAP   - Display a map of the address space.
 
SETUP - Configure the M1000.
 
TEST  - Enter a continuous test mode
 
 
Enter a command and press the return key :
00037176
@177776/055433 177777
@10000/012706 12706
010002/011546 10000
010004/010600 12746
...(the process of entering quite a standard bootloader has been cutted)
010124/000000 4715
010126/000000 4715
010130/000000 5007
@10000G
HX 2.2  RT-11 Cold boot..
 
HX DSK/TTY multiplexer   v3.3  2016
 
RT-11SB (S) V05.07
 
.R MSCPCK
 
.BOO ZB1:RT11SB
 
RT-11SB (S) V05.07
 
.R MSCPCK
 
.SHO ALL
 
RT-11SB (S) V05.07
Booted from ZB1:RT11SB
 
USR     is set SWAP
EXIT    is set SWAP
KMON    is set NOIND
MODE    is set NOSJ
TT      is set NOQUIET
ERROR   is set ERROR
SL      is set OFF
EDIT    is set KED
FORTRAN is set FORTRA
KMON nesting depth is 3
Global .SCCA flag is disabled
 
CLI is set DCL, CCL, UCL, NO UCF
 
PDP 11/73A Processor
4088KB of memory
Floating Point Microcode
Extended Instruction Set (EIS)
Memory Management Unit
Parity Memory
ECC Memory
Cache Memory
50 Hertz System Clock
 
Memory parity support
SB timer support
Global .SCCA support
FPU support
Extended unit support
 
Device    Status                   CSR     Vector(s)
------    ------                   ---     ---------
  RK      Installed               177400   220
  DL      Not installed           174400   160
  DU      Not installed           172150   154
  HX      Installed               177560   000
  ZA      Installed               161014   350
  ZB      Resident                161054   354
  ZC      Installed               161114   360
  ZD      Installed               161154   364
  ZE      Not installed           161214   370
  ZF      Not installed           161254   374
  WQ      Not installed           177134   204
  WS      Not installed           177134   204
  LD      Installed               000000   000
  VM      Installed               177572   250
  MU      Not installed           174500   260
  NL      Installed               000000   000
  SL      Installed               000000   000
  EM      Installed               000000   010
  DD      Installed               176530   330 334
 
TT  (Resident)
ZB  (Resident)
    ZB1 = DK , SY
HX
RK
ZA
ZC
VM
ZD
LD
NL
SL
EM
DD
13 free slots
 
Job  Name  Console Level State    Low    High  Impure
---  ----  ------- ----- -----    ---    ----  ------
 0   RESORC   0      0   Run     000000 135204 137076
 
No multi-terminal support
 
Address   Module    Words
-------   ------    -----
160000    IOPAGE     4096.
157200    ZB          192.
135250    RMON       4588.
001000    ..BG..    23636.
 
No LD units mounted
 
 
 
.

As can be seen from the title - the board is not at all like the M11, but it seems to be very close to it, according to first impressions - the modified contents of the initial ROM.

The board started quite well (although there are some incomprehensible moments here) in a standard DEC H9278-A and successfully booted (via the help of HX) with a CF card.

Unfortunately the firmware version is 1.15 and FPP is only available from version 2 or higher, so - no FPP.
According to the documentation - even with the required version of the FPP microcode (implemented using the i960) it differs from the standard DEC - it has 2-3 lower digits less (as I understand it - binary) the result is less (that is, DEC FPP calculates more accurately :) )

The first thing that comes to mind is how fast the board is :) Ok, the first test is with my SPEED3.

Code:
.RUN SPEED4                                                                .RUN SPEED3
                                                                           
Performance test (cache, if present, enabled)                              Performance test (cache, if present, disabled)
                                                                           
BR .+2                          1 470 536 op./sec                            1 743 468 op./sec
R1+R0 classic                     649 575 op./sec                            6 965 368 op./sec
R0(23456.)+R0(12345.) empty     1 470 517 op./sec                            1 741 341 op./sec
R1(23456.)+R0(12345.)           1 180 902 op./sec ->   5 996 017 op./sec     1 393 073 op./sec ->   6 965 369 op./sec
R1+@R0 classic                    309 949 op./sec                            1 268 117 op./sec
R1(23456.)+@R0(M-12345.) empty  1 470 518 op./sec                            1 741 341 op./sec
R1(23456.)+@R0(M-12345.)          847 196 op./sec ->   1 998 673 op./sec       733 761 op./sec ->   1 268 115 op./sec
R0*R0 classic                     271 590 op./sec                              465 063 op./sec
11.*12. empty                   1 470 518 op./sec                            1 741 341 op./sec
11.*12.                           229 931 op./sec ->     272 546 op./sec       340 192 op./sec ->     422 788 op./sec
R2/R0 classic                     161 716 op./sec                              398 632 op./sec
R2-R3(34567.)/R1(321.) empty    1 180 902 op./sec                            1 393 073 op./sec
R2-R3(34567.)/R1(321.)            152 808 op./sec ->     175 520 op./sec       316 982 op./sec ->     410 354 op./sec
MOV 8 word 1 empty                962 804 op./sec                            1 160 894 op./sec
MOV 8 word 1                       56 903 op./sec ->      60 477 op./sec        58 375 op./sec ->      61 465 op./sec
MOV 8 word 2 empty                964 010 op./sec                            1 160 894 op./sec
MOV 8 word 2                       69 267 op./sec ->      74 629 op./sec        70 311 op./sec ->      74 844 op./sec
R1 := M(word)                   1 468 650 op./sec                            1 267 742 op./sec
R1 := M(even byte)              1 470 519 op./sec                            1 267 742 op./sec
R1 := M(odd byte)               1 470 519 op./sec                            1 267 742 op./sec
#4+R0(2000) empty               1 247 782 op./sec                            3 482 684 op./sec
#4+R0(2000)                     1 470 518 op./sec ->           0 op./sec     1 741 341 op./sec ->   3 482 680 op./sec
CMP (R0)+,(R0)+ empty           1 247 782 op./sec                            3 482 684 op./sec
CMP (R0)+,(R0)+                   742 313 op./sec ->   1 832 446 op./sec       606 412 op./sec ->     734 263 op./sec
#2+R0(2000) empty               1 247 782 op./sec                            3 482 684 op./sec
#2+R0(2000)                     1 470 518 op./sec ->           0 op./sec     1 741 341 op./sec ->   3 482 680 op./sec
INC R0 INC R0 empty             1 247 781 op./sec                            3 482 683 op./sec
INC R0 INC R0                   1 470 518 op./sec ->           0 op./sec     1 741 341 op./sec ->   3 482 681 op./sec
TST (R0)+ empty                 1 247 782 op./sec                            3 482 683 op./sec
TST (R0)+                       1 180 903 op./sec ->  22 032 469 op./sec       930 305 op./sec ->   1 269 387 op./sec
CLR R0 - SOB R0, . empty          649 575 op./sec                            6 965 367 op./sec
CLR R0 - SOB R0, .                     18 op./sec ->          18 op./sec            21 op./sec ->          21 op./sec
ABS1                              259 821 op./sec                              155 419 op./sec
ABS2                            1 180 916 op./sec                            1 393 979 op./sec
ABS2+ empty                     1 249 492 op./sec                            3 482 684 op./sec
ABS2+                             847 202 op./sec ->   2 631 365 op./sec       995 514 op./sec ->   1 393 978 op./sec
ABS2- empty                     1 247 781 op./sec                            3 482 683 op./sec
ABS2-                             986 595 op./sec ->   4 713 324 op./sec     1 266 617 op./sec ->   1 990 565 op./sec
ABS3                            1 470 517 op./sec                            1 393 526 op./sec

I draw your attention to the fact that KDJ11-B (24 MHz!) was tested with a hit in the cache (that is, this is its MAXIMUM performance), but there is no cache on the M11, but it has fast memory - therefore SPEED3 was used (and SPEED4 showed about the same results).

Well, I'm a famous fan of RSX-11, more specifically - M-Plus, there is one on flash drives, so then I tried to load it and ... when I saw how RSX recognized the board, I specifically choked :) The result was EXTREMELY unexpected ...

Code:
.BOO/FOR D40:
 
 
 
RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6  BL87   2044.KW  System:"KXX03        "
>RED ZD1:=SY:
>RED ZD1:=LB:
>RED ZD1:=SP:
>MOU ZD1:"RSX11MPBL87"
>@ZD1:[1,2]STARTUP
>;                      PLEASE NOTE
>;
>;      If you have not yet read the system release notes, please do so
>;      now before attempting to perform a SYSGEN or to utilize the new
>;      features of this system.
>;
>;
>* Please enter time and date (HH:MM DD-MMM-YYYY) [S]: 16:30 5-NOV-2022
>TIME 16:30 5-NOV-2022
>ACS SY:/BLKS=1024.
>CON ONLINE ALL
... (deleted because not interested)
>ACD INSTALL LB1:[ACD2]MIMACD.TSK AS NUMBER 20 ASSIGN ACD$MIM
>ACD LINK TI: TO NUMBER 20
>@ <EOF>

>CON DISPL ATTR FOR SYS
SYS
                PDP-11/96, EIS,UNIBUS_Map,D-Space,Cache,
                Clock=KW11-L, $TKPS=50., $TTPRM=000002, Cache_control=000001
 
All incomprehensible moments with loading are understood :) Need to read the documentation carefully :)
From the (relative) disadvantages - the memory on the board without parity support ...
 
Занялся RSX. Из интересного:
Code:
>;
>;
>* SU100   Do you want to run Autoconfigure on the host system
>*         hardware? [Y/N D:N]: Y
>;
>; Running Autoconfigure:
>;
>INS $ACF
>ACF
#
>INS $ACO
>ACO SHOW
Processor Type:  M11 (MENTEC)          Memory Size:  2044. Kw

Options:

        Extended Instruction Set (EIS)
        Extended (22-Bit) Addressing
        Cache Memory
        Parity Memory

Name    Vector     CSR      Unit    Type      Remark
DKA      220      177404
                             0      RK05
                             1      RK05
                             2      RK05
                             3      RK05
                             4      RK05
                             5      RK05
                             6      RK05
                             7      RK05
YLA      060      177560
YLB      300      176500
YLC      310      176510
YLD      320      176520
YLE      330      176530

>ACO SYSGEN
>;
>* SU110   Do you want to override the Autoconfigure results? [Y/N D:N]:
ACF/ACO know this cpu :)
 
RT-11 v5.7 time of sysgen
Code:
         KDJ11-B (24MHz)     M11
RT11SB       00:10:57     00:09:50
RT11FB       00:11:27     00:10:17
RT11XB       00:12:10     00:10:56
RT11XM       00:12:46     00:11:28
RT11ZB       00:12:20     00:11:05
RT11ZM       00:12:59     00:11:38
Total        01:12:39     01:05:14
 
RSX generation

M11

Code:
>TIME
20:42:39 6-NOV-22
>;
>MAC @RSXASM
...
>;
>; End of SYSGEN
>;
>TIME
22:30:10 6-NOV-22

Total 01:47:31


KDJ11-B, 24 MHz

Code:
>TIME
23:13:26 6-NOV-22
>;
>MAC @RSXASM
.....
>;
>; End of SYSGEN
>;
>TIME
01:12:59 7-NOV-22

Total 01:59:33

RSX also confirms the M11's not-so-great performance advantage.

On the M11 board, I found only one quartz - at 12 MHz
 
I dumped ROMs from my M11.



Hunta's board also from me, i guess my dumps will be similar to his.

There 4 microcode roms, and one bootrom.
 

Attachments

  • Mentec_M11_roms.zip
    151.1 KB · Views: 7
I got here a very interesting and not often seen Mentec M11 board :)
Thanks to my friend!

Photo

So, the log (but not the first one at all) of the download:

Code:
M11 Microcode Rev. V 1.15
Loading microcode - 1 2 3 4 5
 
 
 
Testing in progress please wait
  4088 K Bytes RAM
 
M1000 SIEMENS BOOTSTRAP / DIAGNOSTIC VERSION V 2.1
 
Commands are :
 
BOOT  - Boot from a specific device.
 
HELP  - Re-display this summary of commands.
 
LIST  - List the bootstraps provided.
 
MAP   - Display a map of the address space.
 
SETUP - Configure the M1000.
 
TEST  - Enter a continuous test mode
 
 
Enter a command and press the return key :
00037176
@177776/055433 177777
@10000/012706 12706
010002/011546 10000
010004/010600 12746
...(the process of entering quite a standard bootloader has been cutted)
010124/000000 4715
010126/000000 4715
010130/000000 5007
@10000G
HX 2.2  RT-11 Cold boot..
 
HX DSK/TTY multiplexer   v3.3  2016
 
RT-11SB (S) V05.07
 
.R MSCPCK
 
.BOO ZB1:RT11SB
 
RT-11SB (S) V05.07
 
.R MSCPCK
 
.SHO ALL
 
RT-11SB (S) V05.07
Booted from ZB1:RT11SB
 
USR     is set SWAP
EXIT    is set SWAP
KMON    is set NOIND
MODE    is set NOSJ
TT      is set NOQUIET
ERROR   is set ERROR
SL      is set OFF
EDIT    is set KED
FORTRAN is set FORTRA
KMON nesting depth is 3
Global .SCCA flag is disabled
 
CLI is set DCL, CCL, UCL, NO UCF
 
PDP 11/73A Processor
4088KB of memory
Floating Point Microcode
Extended Instruction Set (EIS)
Memory Management Unit
Parity Memory
ECC Memory
Cache Memory
50 Hertz System Clock
 
Memory parity support
SB timer support
Global .SCCA support
FPU support
Extended unit support
 
Device    Status                   CSR     Vector(s)
------    ------                   ---     ---------
  RK      Installed               177400   220
  DL      Not installed           174400   160
  DU      Not installed           172150   154
  HX      Installed               177560   000
  ZA      Installed               161014   350
  ZB      Resident                161054   354
  ZC      Installed               161114   360
  ZD      Installed               161154   364
  ZE      Not installed           161214   370
  ZF      Not installed           161254   374
  WQ      Not installed           177134   204
  WS      Not installed           177134   204
  LD      Installed               000000   000
  VM      Installed               177572   250
  MU      Not installed           174500   260
  NL      Installed               000000   000
  SL      Installed               000000   000
  EM      Installed               000000   010
  DD      Installed               176530   330 334
 
TT  (Resident)
ZB  (Resident)
    ZB1 = DK , SY
HX
RK
ZA
ZC
VM
ZD
LD
NL
SL
EM
DD
13 free slots
 
Job  Name  Console Level State    Low    High  Impure
---  ----  ------- ----- -----    ---    ----  ------
 0   RESORC   0      0   Run     000000 135204 137076
 
No multi-terminal support
 
Address   Module    Words
-------   ------    -----
160000    IOPAGE     4096.
157200    ZB          192.
135250    RMON       4588.
001000    ..BG..    23636.
 
No LD units mounted
 
 
 
.

As can be seen from the title - the board is not at all like the M11, but it seems to be very close to it, according to first impressions - the modified contents of the initial ROM.

The board started quite well (although there are some incomprehensible moments here) in a standard DEC H9278-A and successfully booted (via the help of HX) with a CF card.

Unfortunately the firmware version is 1.15 and FPP is only available from version 2 or higher, so - no FPP.
According to the documentation - even with the required version of the FPP microcode (implemented using the i960) it differs from the standard DEC - it has 2-3 lower digits less (as I understand it - binary) the result is less (that is, DEC FPP calculates more accurately :) )

The first thing that comes to mind is how fast the board is :) Ok, the first test is with my SPEED3.

Code:
.RUN SPEED4                                                                .RUN SPEED3
                                                                          
Performance test (cache, if present, enabled)                              Performance test (cache, if present, disabled)
                                                                          
BR .+2                          1 470 536 op./sec                            1 743 468 op./sec
R1+R0 classic                     649 575 op./sec                            6 965 368 op./sec
R0(23456.)+R0(12345.) empty     1 470 517 op./sec                            1 741 341 op./sec
R1(23456.)+R0(12345.)           1 180 902 op./sec ->   5 996 017 op./sec     1 393 073 op./sec ->   6 965 369 op./sec
R1+@R0 classic                    309 949 op./sec                            1 268 117 op./sec
R1(23456.)+@R0(M-12345.) empty  1 470 518 op./sec                            1 741 341 op./sec
R1(23456.)+@R0(M-12345.)          847 196 op./sec ->   1 998 673 op./sec       733 761 op./sec ->   1 268 115 op./sec
R0*R0 classic                     271 590 op./sec                              465 063 op./sec
11.*12. empty                   1 470 518 op./sec                            1 741 341 op./sec
11.*12.                           229 931 op./sec ->     272 546 op./sec       340 192 op./sec ->     422 788 op./sec
R2/R0 classic                     161 716 op./sec                              398 632 op./sec
R2-R3(34567.)/R1(321.) empty    1 180 902 op./sec                            1 393 073 op./sec
R2-R3(34567.)/R1(321.)            152 808 op./sec ->     175 520 op./sec       316 982 op./sec ->     410 354 op./sec
MOV 8 word 1 empty                962 804 op./sec                            1 160 894 op./sec
MOV 8 word 1                       56 903 op./sec ->      60 477 op./sec        58 375 op./sec ->      61 465 op./sec
MOV 8 word 2 empty                964 010 op./sec                            1 160 894 op./sec
MOV 8 word 2                       69 267 op./sec ->      74 629 op./sec        70 311 op./sec ->      74 844 op./sec
R1 := M(word)                   1 468 650 op./sec                            1 267 742 op./sec
R1 := M(even byte)              1 470 519 op./sec                            1 267 742 op./sec
R1 := M(odd byte)               1 470 519 op./sec                            1 267 742 op./sec
#4+R0(2000) empty               1 247 782 op./sec                            3 482 684 op./sec
#4+R0(2000)                     1 470 518 op./sec ->           0 op./sec     1 741 341 op./sec ->   3 482 680 op./sec
CMP (R0)+,(R0)+ empty           1 247 782 op./sec                            3 482 684 op./sec
CMP (R0)+,(R0)+                   742 313 op./sec ->   1 832 446 op./sec       606 412 op./sec ->     734 263 op./sec
#2+R0(2000) empty               1 247 782 op./sec                            3 482 684 op./sec
#2+R0(2000)                     1 470 518 op./sec ->           0 op./sec     1 741 341 op./sec ->   3 482 680 op./sec
INC R0 INC R0 empty             1 247 781 op./sec                            3 482 683 op./sec
INC R0 INC R0                   1 470 518 op./sec ->           0 op./sec     1 741 341 op./sec ->   3 482 681 op./sec
TST (R0)+ empty                 1 247 782 op./sec                            3 482 683 op./sec
TST (R0)+                       1 180 903 op./sec ->  22 032 469 op./sec       930 305 op./sec ->   1 269 387 op./sec
CLR R0 - SOB R0, . empty          649 575 op./sec                            6 965 367 op./sec
CLR R0 - SOB R0, .                     18 op./sec ->          18 op./sec            21 op./sec ->          21 op./sec
ABS1                              259 821 op./sec                              155 419 op./sec
ABS2                            1 180 916 op./sec                            1 393 979 op./sec
ABS2+ empty                     1 249 492 op./sec                            3 482 684 op./sec
ABS2+                             847 202 op./sec ->   2 631 365 op./sec       995 514 op./sec ->   1 393 978 op./sec
ABS2- empty                     1 247 781 op./sec                            3 482 683 op./sec
ABS2-                             986 595 op./sec ->   4 713 324 op./sec     1 266 617 op./sec ->   1 990 565 op./sec
ABS3                            1 470 517 op./sec                            1 393 526 op./sec

I draw your attention to the fact that KDJ11-B (24 MHz!) was tested with a hit in the cache (that is, this is its MAXIMUM performance), but there is no cache on the M11, but it has fast memory - therefore SPEED3 was used (and SPEED4 showed about the same results).

Well, I'm a famous fan of RSX-11, more specifically - M-Plus, there is one on flash drives, so then I tried to load it and ... when I saw how RSX recognized the board, I specifically choked :) The result was EXTREMELY unexpected ...

Code:
.BOO/FOR D40:
 
 
 
RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6  BL87   2044.KW  System:"KXX03        "
>RED ZD1:=SY:
>RED ZD1:=LB:
>RED ZD1:=SP:
>MOU ZD1:"RSX11MPBL87"
>@ZD1:[1,2]STARTUP
>;                      PLEASE NOTE
>;
>;      If you have not yet read the system release notes, please do so
>;      now before attempting to perform a SYSGEN or to utilize the new
>;      features of this system.
>;
>;
>* Please enter time and date (HH:MM DD-MMM-YYYY) [S]: 16:30 5-NOV-2022
>TIME 16:30 5-NOV-2022
>ACS SY:/BLKS=1024.
>CON ONLINE ALL
... (deleted because not interested)
>ACD INSTALL LB1:[ACD2]MIMACD.TSK AS NUMBER 20 ASSIGN ACD$MIM
>ACD LINK TI: TO NUMBER 20
>@ <EOF>

>CON DISPL ATTR FOR SYS
SYS
                PDP-11/96, EIS,UNIBUS_Map,D-Space,Cache,
                Clock=KW11-L, $TKPS=50., $TTPRM=000002, Cache_control=000001
Hi! I need your help:
I have M11 board and a riser board only.
What can I do that? And how can I check the working state? Thank You?
 
a riser board only.
What is this board?

What you need (at least) to start the M11 is the power supply of +5 and +12 volts (but you can probably get by with only +5 volt) and the ACLO and DCLO signals in the correct sequence and with the correct delays. This will be enough to test M11.

To run any operating system - a controller and a drive from the list supported by the board. Although there are options.

I have an H9278-A backplane with a self-made ACLO and DCLO generation module, powered by an ATX unit.
 
What is this board?

What you need (at least) to start the M11 is the power supply of +5 and +12 volts (but you can probably get by with only +5 volt) and the ACLO and DCLO signals in the correct sequence and with the correct delays. This will be enough to test M11.

To run any operating system - a controller and a drive from the list supported by the board. Although there are options.

I have an H9278-A backplane with a self-made ACLO and DCLO generation module, powered by an ATX unit.
The "riser board" is a blank backplate.
IMG_20221117_153903.jpg
IMG_20221117_155315.jpg

My cpu card is this:
16686972037434658474599030737705.jpg
16686972562081938930141309516661.jpg

And when I add the needed voltages...
IMG_20221117_171647.jpg

Can You give me a circuit diagram of self maded ACLO and DCLO generator?

I have MFM HDD but need controller circuit if available at the home made...
 
Last edited:
Maybe in the evening I will compare the wiring on H9278-А with the wiring in the photo, but at a quick glance - there are differences.

And M11 can work in standard DEC backplane, even in PMI slot - if I'm not mistaken and the third slot on H9278-А on the CD side is PMI.
 
IMG_20221117_155315.jpg
What's the dedicated cpu slot (if have that the backplate)?
 
Last edited:
Given that I see this back panel for the second time and in the photo, I don’t know. It is logical to assume that (if you look at the photo above) the lowest slot. But this is only an assumption. It can also be assumed that if only an M11 board is inserted, then any slot can be used.
 
Back
Top