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My Apple IIe and Apple IIGS - Starting from scratch. Enjoy the ride, the pitfalls, the fails and the fun.

Venger

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2022
Messages
92
Location
Silver Spring, Maryland
So I recently purchased these two beauties and I am here to share my journey. OK, Im here because Im going to need some help but I will "give back to the board" by sharing my journey so the next time a dummy like me finds this place and this hobby they can save a little time learning from my blunders!

First, lets see the goods! (please excuse the mess, these were right when they landed in their new home)

Paid $230 total. Super early IIe.
IMG_E0376.JPG


Paid $245
IMG_0226.JPG
 
So my goals:

Apple IIe - Just get her cleaned up and running. I will likely add some cards but I need to learn how restricted I am with this super early "A" logic board.

Early observations:
1) "o" key sticks and repeats sometimes.
2) I cant get her into diagnostic mode. Maybe this board doesn't have it? (y/n?) Maybe the closed apple key doesn't function? (y/n?)
3) I cant seem to adjust the monitor to have both a black background (instead of green) and have clear text.
 
Apple IIGS Goals:

This will be used to run all the games and software. I want my IIe to look stock, I dont care if my IIGS has Frankenstein bolts protruding from the monitor, I want it to be beastly as possible, understanding there are limitations.

Early observations:
Super clean. There's not even any dust anywhere.
Came with some cards, need to learn what they do.
Need to replace the battery - (Already cut out and ordered a new kit and battery)

Depends on what cards I have but early research has me looking at:
-Floppy EMU kit

I THINK I want:
Transwarp
CFFA 3000 card <- Do I even need this if I have floppy emu?
 
The wife just found out about the newest computer (The IIe). She was not impressed. I might not be a able to keep her.

Im gonna miss her. Shes a good cook. 😉




In other news, I just picked this up for $99.15

s-l1600 (3).jpg
 
The CFFA3000 would be a bit faster if you’re emulating a hard drive but you can get by well enough with the Floppy Emu.

If you should pick up a TranswarpGS then the Floppy Emu would be a bit limiting as the TranswarpGS would spend a lot of time waiting for data. If you had a large enough memory card to use some of it as a RAMdisk, that’d help
 
Remember Wayne, you're dealing with an Neanderthal and Im new to the internals of these things. I know the basics of almost all of the stock cards but the aftermarket stuff I am much less familiar.

Are you saying that CFFA3000 > TranswarpGS ?

I really have no budget for the GS so maybe I should ask what the best cards/upgrades that are mostly plug - n - play?
 
So my goals:

Apple IIe - Just get her cleaned up and running. I will likely add some cards but I need to learn how restricted I am with this super early "A" logic board.

Early observations:
1) "o" key sticks and repeats sometimes.
2) I cant get her into diagnostic mode. Maybe this board doesn't have it? (y/n?) Maybe the closed apple key doesn't function? (y/n?)
3) I cant seem to adjust the monitor to have both a black background (instead of green) and have clear text.

I'd call that a early-mid-era IIe. The early ones had white text on the keycaps. Then yours, with the black text. Then yours, but with the enhanced ROM and a 64C02. The late ones had a numeric keypad and were a slightly different color.

Unplug the keyboard ribbon cable from the mobo. It should then automagically enter diagnostics. It looks like it doesn't have the enhanced rom (unless it was installed later and they didn't put the "enhanced" sticker on the power LED), so it should fill the screen with white, then black, then repeat a few times, then beep and say "Kernel OK". If it doesn't go into diagnostics, then your problem is on the mainboard rather than the keyboard.

IIRC there is a pot near the composite jack that adjusts something about the video output. I've never had to mess with it though. That jack itself is also a frequent failure point, where the center conductor breaks but still touches, resulting in unreliable video.

A lot of software assumes that your floppy controller is in slot 6, so don't move it to a different slot.
 
Apple IIGS Goals:

This will be used to run all the games and software. I want my IIe to look stock, I dont care if my IIGS has Frankenstein bolts protruding from the monitor, I want it to be beastly as possible, understanding there are limitations.

Early observations:
Super clean. There's not even any dust anywhere.
Came with some cards, need to learn what they do.
Need to replace the battery - (Already cut out and ordered a new kit and battery)

Depends on what cards I have but early research has me looking at:
-Floppy EMU kit

I THINK I want:
Transwarp
CFFA 3000 card <- Do I even need this if I have floppy emu?

The floppuemu rocks.

The TWGS isn't really needed unless you want to run office type software in GSOS or play Wolf3d. You'll have to drop it back to stock speed to play games anyway.

What for cards does it have in it?
 
The CFFA3000 is significantly faster then the FloppyEmu in SmartPort mode. A RamFAST SCSI card is faster still (even with a 30 year old hard drive). That card really lives up to its name!

An accelerator is an all around quality of life improvement. IIgs specific games tend to use onboard timers so they still run at the correct speed. Disk loading times would be substantially improved if running from a real or emulated 3.5" disk. There is a new accelerator out called the AppleSqueezer, just be aware that it can't work with DMA cards. The CFFA3000 is fine however.
 
OK so for the APPLE IIe (Which Im going to try and focus on first)

These are the cards that Im aware of and need more info.

Disc Coltroller
I'd call that a early-mid-era IIe. The early ones had white text on the keycaps. Then yours, with the black text. Then yours, but with the enhanced ROM and a 64C02. The late ones had a numeric keypad and were a slightly different color.

Unplug the keyboard ribbon cable from the mobo. It should then automagically enter diagnostics. It looks like it doesn't have the enhanced rom (unless it was installed later and they didn't put the "enhanced" sticker on the power LED), so it should fill the screen with white, then black, then repeat a few times, then beep and say "Kernel OK". If it doesn't go into diagnostics, then your problem is on the mainboard rather than the keyboard.

IIRC there is a pot near the composite jack that adjusts something about the video output. I've never had to mess with it though. That jack itself is also a frequent failure point, where the center conductor breaks but still touches, resulting in unreliable video.

A lot of software assumes that your floppy controller is in slot 6, so don't move it to a different slot.
Thank you. All great info to know and I appreciate it. Excited to open this thing up and see what else we run into.
 
the floppy emu is excellent. I use it for my apple ii's the most but also macintosh systems. Also wotks on my?apple Lisa. And apparwntly it will work on the apple III now too.

I would say there are 4 types of iie.. Possibly 3 depending on how you look at things. The early iie comes in a painted case with velcro snaps like the apple ii and ii plus. It has a keyboard similar to the apple III it has white lettsring on the keycaps. the first version of the 1982 board rev A cannot be enhansed so its really rare. I have the rev B of this sytem. The next version is the most common. A non painted beige plastic case and 1984 board. Can be made to be enhasnced with new chipset and a 65c02 cpu upgrade. . I consider an enhansed version of this system its own type. The last vsrsion is the 1986 platinum board. case is platinum colored plastic same as the iigs. Keyboard has an additional numpad. All 1986 iie platinums come enhanced.
 
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OK so for the APPLE IIe (Which Im going to try and focus on first)

These are the cards that Im aware of and need more info.

Disc Coltroller

You'll very likely have the plain-jane Disk ][ controller. It's really the same as the later DB-19 controller, but the connectors are different. Make sure that you plug your drive cables in the correct way and don't get it off by a pin or you'll put 12v on something that ought not have 12v and the magic smoke will escape from the disk drive analog board.

If you decide not to get a floppyemu, I could probably be arm-twisted into sending you some boot media and some public domain software collections. You can also boot adtpro off the cassette port with your phone and write a boot floppy that way. But the FloppyEmu is a really really nice thing to have if you're going to use the machine much.
 
I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I can't seem to help running my mouth, haha.

Here are my ol' IIs. My dad bought the ][e in 1983. It was a rev b to begin with but now has a plat mainboard in it. It's bare other than the Disk ][ and a 64k 80 column card. I kind of want to make a CP/M card for it. The IIgs is a Woz case with a ROM3 board in it. 16MHz TWGS, 4mb, Phasor sound card for Ultima games in IIe more, VidHD, A2SCSI. TWGS is pretty unstable. I need to clock it down some I guess.
 

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Hey- First, OOPs, I was working on a post about a bunch of different controllers and got sidetracked.

Was supposed to go like this (Please feel free to correct me, this is just my limited knowledge and memory)

Disk controller (covered above)

I/O card - this makes it so you can add another floppy?

80 column card - 64 bit added ram - allows the user to switch from 40 columns to 80 columns. (About $20 used, $60 new)

Echo text to speak card - text to cool 80s voice? If true, awesome!

Language card - added memory?

CPM cards? - Zed 80 pro-sumthin or other. Not sure about these.

Booti - Is this just a cheaper version of floppy emu?

Rom card - diagnostics and makes it so you can use different versions of rom? Maybe would help mine with compatibility?

Internal modems - modem, duh.

Grappler - parallel card, possibly better for printers?

Super serial card -used for printers and external modems?
 
like i said its rare. I Doubt you have an 82 rev A iie.

Whats the 1/2 AA for? no sense in using them as they are pricey and prone to leak. CR2032 batteries arw dirt cheap and so ars the battery holders.
 
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By the way your IIe is the standard 1984 board model. It may or may no be enhaced. Turn it on and see how the Apple II looks in the top of the screen. If its APPLE ][ Then its unenhanced. If its APPLE // Then its enhanced. I have a ton of IIe's. I keep some unenhanced as thats far less common than enhanced and If doesnt stop me from running all the games and programs I want to run.
 
Hey- First, OOPs, I was working on a post about a bunch of different controllers and got sidetracked.

Was supposed to go like this (Please feel free to correct me, this is just my limited knowledge and memory)

Disk controller (covered above)

I/O card - this makes it so you can add another floppy?

80 column card - 64 bit added ram - allows the user to switch from 40 columns to 80 columns. (About $20 used, $60 new)

Echo text to speak card - text to cool 80s voice? If true, awesome!

Language card - added memory?

CPM cards? - Zed 80 pro-sumthin or other. Not sure about these.

Booti - Is this just a cheaper version of floppy emu?

Rom card - diagnostics and makes it so you can use different versions of rom? Maybe would help mine with compatibility?

Internal modems - modem, duh.

Grappler - parallel card, possibly better for printers?

Super serial card -used for printers and external modems?


Unless someone switched the keyboard, you have a later revision unenhanced IIe. Probably a rev b. Even if it has a -A at the end of the serial number (some of the rev b boards do).

-----

Sounds like you got a lot of cards with them. o_O

Have to see a pic of the IO card to know what it is.

Language card probably has no purpose in your machine, as they stopped using them post-II+, unless it's one of the newer ones that lets you run integer basic from ROM on a IIe (still of limited usefulness imo).

No real need for a rom card unless you are hardware hacking, imo. I assume this is another language card of some kind, not a boot-type ROM as below.

About the only use for a Grappler+ these days is to switch the ROM out to one that makes a modified Disk II behave (sort of) like a liron controller. Hacky way to do it, and not fully compatible. Since BMOW is making a liron clone these days, that would be a better choice if you need something newer than the 5.25 drive on the IIe.

If you have a super serial card, you can make a null modem cable and get adtpro booted over the serial port and write some disk images faster/easier than booting it over the cassette port.

-----

Since you have both a IIe and a IIgs, my advice is as follows:

The IIgs already has a built-in liron controller, so it supports 3.5 drives and smartport hard disks (and those emulated by the floppyemu) natively. So you don't really (imo) need a "better" disk controller for the IIe. Just run it off floppies that you've written on the IIgs.

The IIgs already has a serial port built in, too, so it's an option for booting adtpro and writing some actual disks, too, if your super-serial card has issues. If you don't plan to use the printer, you can cut one end off the cable, ring it out with an ohmmeter, and make a IIgs-to-DE9 null modem cable out of it.

So my opinion of what I would keep in the machines is:

IIgs: Nothing but the RAM card in the aux slot. Maybe your Booti if you don't get a floppyemu.

IIe: 64k/80col card in aux slot. Super serial in slot 1. Disk II in slot 6. Booti if you don't put it in the IIgs. Maybe your cp/m card if that's something you're interested in playing with.

You probably want to get a joystick you don't already have one. Some of the oldest games use paddles, but I wouldn't buy any paddles unless you decide for sure that you want to get serious with the machines. I prefer the short CH-style sticks that you control with your thumb, rather than the huge flight-stick types.

Then I'd throw the rest of that stuff in a box and hide it in the closet or unload it on ebay for beer money. You can probably get a good bit for that IIe mouse and card, but you don't really need it. If you're going to run office-type software, the IIgs is way better for that, and none of the games you'd want to play on a IIe use the mouse.

I don't know what slot the booti is supposed to go in. Normally a hard drive controller would go in slot 7, but I suspect that the booti actually acts like a battery-backed ramdisk under prodos (more on that below).

If I were me, I'd use the machines for a bit to see if they're something you'll end up using pretty often and worth investing a little more in. If I were going to use them more often, I'd consider a FloppyEmu first (way easier to try out disk images off Asimov without having to write each one to actual physical media every time, and when you're not using it for that it can be a smartport hard drive on your IIgs. Get the DB-19 adapter with it. After that, I'd consider one of the Mockingboard clones, but only if you plan to play the Ultima games.

In the meantime, if you have some 5.25 disks, you can boot ADTpro over the serial or cassette port and write an ADTpro floppy image. Then you can boot that on either the IIe or the IIgs and suck disk images over the serial port with a null modem cable from a PC and write them to physical media. I don't know much about your Booti, but I suspect that it acts like a battery-backed ramdisk under prodos, so I don't *think* you can boot dos3.3 disk images on it. If it didn't come with a thumb drive, you'll have to write a prodos system master with adtpro and use that to format the booti drive. But I may be full of poo about that. A lot of the older stuff has been converted to prodos, but not all of it.

Remember that, like the C64, it only uses one side of the 5.25 disks. You can punch the notch out on the other side and flip the disk over to use the reverse side.

I think the IIe with that nice green monochrome monitor is fun for messing with old software, like from the II and II+ days. For playing color games, I prefer the way that the IIgs renders high rez graphics in IIe mode over the way the actual IIe does it.
 
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PS: I had a brain fart in that last post. If you get the FloppyEmu, get the daisy-chainer, not the single-port DB-19 adapter. To act as a smartport hard drive, it will have to go in the middle of the daisy chain. The 3.5 drives always go closest to the machine, and the 5.25 drives always go on the far end of the chain. With the floppyEmu in the middle, you can set it to be either type of floppy drive or a hard drive without needing to rearrange your cables (unless you want to boot from a 3.5 image, in which case it has to be closest to the machine).
 
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