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My Juko Nest N3 NEC V30 10MHz gets a new case & a nice speed boost - Can I finally best Anonymous Coward's "V'ger XT"?

jasa1063

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I posted back in March of this year about my Juko Nest N3 NEC V30 10MHz build that I acquired. The link below is to my post on Vogons:

Re: Juko Nest N3 XT system w/NEC V30 Acquisition/Build

Here is my original post here for this build:


Some of my benchmarks came up a bit short against the legendary Anonymous Coward's "V'ger XT. I wanted to get to the bottom of what made my system slightly slower and I think I finally have those answers. All of my benchmarks now equal or exceed that system. What has changed in the last 7 months? Changing the video card to a Diamond Speedstar ET4000, a bit more testing and some key software tweaks. I had erroneously assumed the system was already running at zero wait states reading from the wait state configuration register at port 70H which always came back as zero. I came to find out that the register is write only. It was only after trying different values that I actually was able to tweak the system to the point it made a real difference. It turns out the memory is at zero wait states, but the ISA bus is set to 3 wait states in the default configuration. I was able to get the ISA bus to 1 wait state and this made a big difference as the benchmarks will show. The 2nd thing was tweaking the memory refresh rate. I now use a value of 500us which is stable and results in measurable increase in overall system performance.

The website for Anonymous Coward's "V'ger XT is no longer online. Here is a link to that webpage on archive.org for reference:


I decided to move this motherboard from a tower to desktop computer case. I really think XT class systems belong in desktop case. This of course did not change the performance, but I now think it has the proper ascetic look. Included is a picture of the new case.

I am also uploading the set of tweaking utilities I used. DRAM simply sets the memory refresh period. In my case I use DRAM 500 for a 500us memory refresh period. Also included are 3 small utilities created with debug for tweaking the wait state configuration register at port 70H. WS0 tries to set everything to zero wait states, but completely locks up my computer. I am only including it for testing purposes in case anyone else has better luck. WS1 sets the the ISA bus to 1 wait state and RAM & ROM to zero wait states. This is what I use for when I boot the system. WS3 is simply the default state as if no tweaks were applied. I figured this out during my testing. Please note the 3 wait state utilities should just be used with a Juko Nest N3. I also have a Juko ST motherboard and while that uses port 70H, just like the Nest N3, they are slightly different in my experience.
 

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CheckIt 3.0 results:
 

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3Quarterdeck Manifest 1.13 results - The EMS memory results went up a good amount
 

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Landmark 2.0 & 6.0 results - I still had to start Landmark 6.0 at 4.77MHz to get it to start without freezing then kick it back up to 10MHz
 

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Core Test 3.03 - The is the biggest jump. I now almost get 1MBs throughput on the XTIDE Compact Flash adapter!
 

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Well I think this brings this computer's journey to an end. I am really happy with the results. I just goes to show you just need to keep at something until your brain can think it through!
 
Nice. Well I've overclocked my juko turbo in the past to speeds from 16-18 mhz. 2.2 was the best ive gotten in 3d bench, but i got 19 in topbench, 10.99 mhz in landmark and 2335.01 chr/ms. I only spent a few hours with the board, and I think faster ram should be possible in my case anyway. If you want faster scores, definitely try overclocking a bit if you can.
 
Can the boards be ran with zero DRAM on board? Using something like the Lo-Tech 1Mb board with cheap 55ns SRAMs, or maybe bodging in the chips in a way to directly bypass the onboard DRAM, would allow disabling refresh and fewer wait states

I was able to get 15 recently using a NEC V40 (so only 8-bit bus) at 12MHz using SRAM with no wait states, no refresh, and... no stability. (I had stability issues likely due to the VGA card, and a different card made it worse)
 
Nice. Well I've overclocked my juko turbo in the past to speeds from 16-18 mhz. 2.2 was the best ive gotten in 3d bench, but i got 19 in topbench, 10.99 mhz in landmark and 2335.01 chr/ms. I only spent a few hours with the board, and I think faster ram should be possible in my case anyway. If you want faster scores, definitely try overclocking a bit if you can.
Everyone has different criteria, but I am of the mindset with things of this vintage to just leave the electronics on the board as is except in the case of repairs. CPU swaps or changing out chips that are in a socket are fine. I just like to be able to reverse the changes with no impact on the originality of the board. If I need a faster computer that is a step up, I just dig out my 286 20MHz system. I am happy to have gotten the speed improvements I did by simple software tweaks.
 
Can the boards be ran with zero DRAM on board? Using something like the Lo-Tech 1Mb board with cheap 55ns SRAMs, or maybe bodging in the chips in a way to directly bypass the onboard DRAM, would allow disabling refresh and fewer wait states

I was able to get 15 recently using a NEC V40 (so only 8-bit bus) at 12MHz using SRAM with no wait states, no refresh, and... no stability. (I had stability issues likely due to the VGA card, and a different card made it worse)
You can run this board with 0K, but a Lo-Tech board in this computer for would be a step back as the memory interface on this board is 16-bit. Unless it had 16-bit ISA slots, it would be much slower. Even in a Juko ST the best I have gotten is 1 wait state on the ISA bus, so the memory would incur that same penalty. You are far better off just using memory that is 70ns or 80ns and leave it at that. I have 80ns memory in my Juko Nest N3 board.
 
My ram is actually rated 80ns on my board - I'm somewhat surprised it handles faster speeds fine at 0/1ws. You can usually push a lot of the chips pretty far beyond their rated speeds.
 
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