• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

New 486 Build

EverStaR

EverStaR

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2024
Messages
195
I was able to find a DATA Expert Motherboard and it can take up to 128MB RAM. It says 72Pin SIMS and regretfully the manual doesn't offer much more other than for 128MB it would take 16*2 DRAM in each of its 4 slots to get the 128MB. Its been a long time so need a little help.

  1. First off, what's the most I would ever need for a DOS Game or Say Windows 95 games and Music Applications?
  2. Next, given there is no reference on using EDO, guessing I should stay away from that type of RAM.
  3. What speed do you think? 60NS?
  4. For a Power Supply, what ATX to AT Adapter would you recommend? I am thinking these didn't draw a whole lot so maybe I can find a nice ATX 300W PSU. My understanding though is you have to be careful to get the right adapter.
Here are the Future Specs:


What would be your suggestions?
 

Attachments

  • 486NewMB.jpg
    486NewMB.jpg
    625 KB · Views: 7
Last edited:
Remember, DOS can't even recognize anything above 64MB, and there's little gain on most games (IMHO) above 16MB. Win95 may utilize 128MB, but I seldom saw much improvement on anything above 32MB.

If it doesn't mention EDO, stay away from it.
 
I might already have 16MB I can put in it, might look tonight if I find time. Sounds like that would be plenty.
 
For DOS games, 16 MB is enough. If you want to use Windows 9x, go for 32 or 64 MB. Do not go above that, as even on Pentium systems, memory beyond 64 MB was not cached in most cases, so you get a huge performance hit.

Also, I found that some DOS games like e.g. Hi-Octane or Syndicate (CD version) do not work stable with 32 MB or more. So first of all, decide what you want to do with the system. Trying to create one system to do everything won't work - that's just how it is.
 
If you're running true DOS games, then set up a dual-boot where you have better control on those games. DOS - via- Win95 was never a good resolution for playing games.
 
Yeah, since I am going to use CF Cards I can just boot 95 Separate. I likely wont DOS games all that much to be honest. I just want the option to be there or resell value up the road. I can always have the extra memory and install if I want.

And DRAM Speed? Any links to the type of memory I might need would be awesome! I still have to find a VLB Video Card as well, that is a bit of a challenge as a lot of the ones i would choose are very costly or not available. I want to make sure whatever I choose also has drivers as well.

Thanks!
E
 
Last edited:
70ns FPM should be fast enough to work with 33 MHz bus speed.

Being a very late 486 board, it should also be able to use EDO. If that's the case (try to find the manual), get 60ns EDO modules. Make sure they are 5v. Some very late PS/2 memory modules with 32 megs or more were 3.3v.
 
There are more games that have problems with 16 or more megs, than there are games that require 16 megs. And if they do, 486 will certainly not be enough. 1997 DOS 16MB titles are really MMX/K6 stuff, two generations above.
 
Any make the memory vanish utilities out there that limit RAM without having to physically remove it?
 
I have one of these boards and if I recall correctly the secondary cache will only work on the lower 32MB. I think FPM will work, but not EDO.

EDIT: my board is a 4044 (not a 4045), so not quite the same.
 
Last edited:
EverStaR said:
Any make the memory vanish utilities out there that limit RAM without having to physically remove it?
Click to expand...

Didn't heard of it, alternative is patches for incompatible software that expects certain region of DOS memory such as EMS inside some bounds. But, you already have those 16 mb, put them in, run a benchmark suite see how the system performs.

That's an...interesting combination of soundcards there. I wonder why 8 bit MIDI interface when Orpheus already has one.
Don't worry about "music applications" of Windows 95. ISA card is not for pro software, regardless of playback features or quality.
 
Zare said:
Didn't heard of it, alternative is patches for incompatible software that expects certain region of DOS memory such as EMS inside some bounds. But, you already have those 16 mb, put them in, run a benchmark suite see how the system performs.

That's an...interesting combination of soundcards there. I wonder why 8 bit MIDI interface when Orpheus already has one.
Don't worry about "music applications" of Windows 95. ISA card is not for pro software, regardless of playback features or quality.
Click to expand...

THE Orpheus has a dreamblaster daughter board. The Adlib has a surround daughterboard, the MIDi card is for a McCake Daughterboard which is an incredible MT 32 Emulator.
 
EverStaR said:
Any make the memory vanish utilities out there that limit RAM without having to physically remove it?
Click to expand...
Yes, you can simply create a RAM disk in DOS. But what's the point? As stated, decide what you want to do with the system and do not try to make one for everything.

If you want to run music software in Win95, go for 64 MB and just live with the fact that a handful of DOS games may not run because of that. Also, don't forget to turn off the swap file in Windows, unless you want your CF card to have a very short life.

But you should really find the manual for the mainboard first. Knowing the "cacheable area" and whether or not EDO is supported will help alot.
 
EverStaR said:
THE Orpheus has a dreamblaster daughter board. The Adlib has a surround daughterboard, the MIDi card is for a McCake Daughterboard which is an incredible MT 32 Emulator.
Click to expand...

I know what these items do but my question is why the dedicated MPU ISA when you already have a MPU on each of your soundcards.
Consider that serdashop's emulator isn't incredible because of emulation technology but efforts done to run that on pocket form factor. There's really no need to tie it to a specific retro computer and not use it across the board.

I'd just build a straight DOS PC. If you want to explore Win32 sound programs and certainly the stuff that isn't available for DOS, build a Pentium.
 
Timo W. said:
If you want to run music software in Win95, go for 64 MB
Click to expand...

The thing is what is "music software" supposed to be? 486 can't even decode an MP3 properly.

Windows Cubase VST provided up to 32 tracks of digital audio,[23] 128 equalizers in real time, a fully equipped effects rack with four multi-effect processors, a master section and an open plug-in interface for additional real time effects and mastering tools. VST for Windows also supported Active Movie compatible plug-ins. Cubase Audio VST 3.5 + Wavelab 1.6 + Waves AudioTrack was bundled in the first "Producer Pac". This version is native Windows 95 code + is the first version of Cubase for Windows that is incompatible with Windows 3.11.
Click to expand...

So here's a software you can't run on Win3.x and you need to make a Windows 95 build for it. Do you all really think this build should be based around ISA 486? :)

Don't bother yourself with "music software" on Windows 95 because the innovations were done in the area that probably doesn't concern you seeing what soundcards you have. Playing game music files, tracking, all MIDI based stuff, has good software for 16bit. For instance Cubase Score on Win95 is just a new version, iteration, perfectly usable version for Win3.x exists which you can use.
 
What is your point? He's going for Win95, not 3.x. Also, it's very clear that he wants to use MIDI composers. No idea why you even think of MP3.

A 486 is fine for MIDI work, and it will run most DOS games that have great MIDI support.
 
Sorry if I didn't make my point clear.
I'm trying to help out on a forum thread by understanding OP's use case. I have a big question of why Windows 95?

OP specifically says "Windows 95 music applications" and that category of software covers a lot of products and usages that simply won't run on 486 (mp3 given as an example). His PC is also not optimal for about 90% of major-title Windows 95 only games.

Similar question would be building a Windows 98 gaming PC with MMX and 64MB, and then just dropping "and yeah I'd like to run Windows 2000" too.
Sure you can, but you can't run 90% of applications for that OS. What's the point then?

Now if he's limiting his Windows 95 installation to the software and uses that 486 with ISA soundcard can service, he will in 99% of cases use products that have previous version for Win3.x or DOS.
So as you say "486 is fine for MIDI work" absolutely agreed and from my past experiences as a musician you gain nothing by using Windows 95. Just use the same software on Win3.x.

This is again a wall of text because the "requirement" is very vague. Music applications cover everything from built in sound recorder to Pro Tools. Let OP be more specific about what he actually wants to do.
 
Well, I guess one guys illogical pursuit is another's puzzle. You know, hindsight would say that none of us makes sense pursuing any given retro system when everything is a million times better today. And then there is me, I want to dabble back in yester decades and just mess around. I have or will have some other systems to play with W98 - W7. m This machine is for W3.1 & W95, OS2 etc.

So what does one do these days to get a ATX PS and ATX to 12 Pin MB Power Connector?

Many thanks!
E
 
EverStaR said:
Well, I guess one guys illogical pursuit is another's puzzle. You know, hindsight would say that none of us makes sense pursuing any given retro system when everything is a million times better today.
Click to expand...

I have 'illogical pursuits' of my own too ;)
Just wanted to help out by giving some recommendations from the area that's well known to me.

EverStaR said:
So what does one do these days to get a ATX PS and ATX to 12 Pin MB Power Connector?
Click to expand...

I'm using these for ATX to AT


Just keep in mind usually ATX doesn't have -5V supply and usually you don't need it. If you do, there is a quick solution

www.tindie.com

Voltage Blaster negative 5v for modern PSU | -5v m by RetroFletch on Tindie

A small expansion cards that adds -5v into your system even with modern power supplies!
www.tindie.com www.tindie.com

If you don't mind mixing modern components in retro builds, I'd just get a cheap new 'modular' ATX supply bcz of cable management.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top